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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial


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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Dunn testified that he saw Davis with a gun.
    Dunn's account is evidence.

    Like I said; You are in over your head here.
    So, now you're crawling back to Dunn's account to save your soul?

    So what if you want to claim Dunn's self-serving statement as "evidence". The three boys in the Durango claimed no shotgun was in the vehicle and a witness at the shooting scene did not see a shotgun from the Durango pointing at Dunn which was towards the direction of vision of the witness. And then at another location by the loop parking lot two witnesses, brother and sister, testified they didn't see the boys with any weapon.

    So, six evidence against your one, you loose, Excon.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Get your facts straight, that is all which you have provided.
    And still are.


    Irrelevant.
    She did not see the other side of the vehicle as she honestly stated. And he said he didn't have eyes on them the whole time.

    And like her brother, she too was at the rear of the car and saw nothing to the other side of the Durango, because it was impossible to see such from that vantage point.


    Irrelevant. The angles show he is not being truthful.
    And by his own testimony, he said he did not have eyes on them to entire time.


    To recap, you have no case.
    She did not, as she could not, see what happened on the passenger side of the Durango.
    He did not have eyes on them the entire time, and the angles in question would not have allowed him to see what happened on the passenger side of the Durango either.


    You have a real problem in understanding what has been said.
    It is either that or you are straight out lying. Which is it?

    And no, I do not have to answer to your idiotic assertion.

    What I pointed out is circumstantial evidence suggesting that the gun did exist.
    No one else had to see a gun for that to be an accurate statement.
    That is your problem for not fully understanding what circumstantial evidence is.
    She could see enough to be able to tell if the men was just standing and then walking to the back of their vehicle vs ditching away a shotgun right there on the parking lot. She certainly could see that the men did not walk away from the vehicle with a shotgun and then ditched it somewhere else, that much is certain.

    Like I said the brother was standing at different location from her and watched the men got out of the Durango (which was pointed at an angle towards them) until both men got back in. The part he didn't see was when the men reverse their way back to the gas station. So, he didn't see the two men ditching anything or stashing anything. If they did, the shot gun would be either laying in plain sight on the parking lot or still in the Durango which would be found by the police when they came by and impounded the vehicle while all the time witnesses were there watching and helping to revive Davis after pulling him out of the vehicle to the ground to perform CPR.

    You claimed what you have "pointed out is circumstantial evidence suggesting that the gun did exist."

    So, tell me where is your circumstantial evidence? It couldn't be the two witnesses at the Loop parking lot, could it? Because they didn't see anything being ditched or stashed, let alone a shotgun and you yourself insisted they couldn't see much of anything, not that they saw or thought they saw something that looked like a gun or shotgun.

    See your bind there?

    So, you can't answer my question claiming because no one else had to see a gun for that to be an accurate statement? That's a very pathetic claim.

    It's more like there was no other independent witness beside Dunn who could testify to seeing the boys with a gun or a shotgun to support your argument, that's why. Why then don't you just be honest and simply said so instead of leading us into a wild goose chase for nothing?
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 03-12-14 at 11:04 PM.

  4. #334
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Really?
    You are pretending that you are so uneducated that you can not see the distinct difference between these?
    Wow! Simply wow!

    Well you are wrong, and are the only one who has been "thoroughly refuted and utterly destroyed by the facts.
    1. Your quoted scenario is not relevant to this situation at all.
    2. It is nothing more, as shown, than circumstantial evidence to Tom doing the shooting.
    NOt to the existence of a gun.

    But your quoted example is providing direct evidence to the existence of a gun. Duh!


    This is just another example of you not knowing what the hell you are talking about, and explains your ridiculously absurd question above.
    You simply do not understand.
    The illustrations from the definition of circumstantial vs direct evidence parallel that of the situation of the witnesses in Dunn's case.

    In the illustration John saw Tom leaving the room with a smoking gun and yet John's testimony about seeing the smoking gun is just circumstantial evidence. Therefore, same as in Dunn's case, what the brother and sister saw that night at a location 200 yards from the shooting, whether they saw a gun or not, their testimony is simply circumstantial evidence.

    An object itself is neither direct or circumstantial evidence. Weapons, guns, cricket bat, disposed bloody clothing, etc, found after the fact or disposed into the lake after the fact, are simply part and parcel of circumstantial evidence, not direct. Direct means a witness has to witness with his or her own eyes the perpetrator using such weapon or object to cause fatal harm directly to the deceased victim when the event occurred.

    Therefore direct means direct observation of an event by a witness. Circumstantial means evidence gathered together as presumptive or inferential conclusion to an event.

    Which part of above don't you understand?

  5. #335
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only one dishing out crapola and making things up is you.



    Your crapola will not sink in because it is wrong as crapola is.
    Stop spewing it.


    A ridiculous argument that comes directly from you making **** up in your own head.
    Not even the prosecutor would make such an argument because it can not be shown to be true.

    The sister could not even see the other side of the vehicle at all, which she honestly stated. Period.

    And even though her brother can clearly be shown to be untruthful by the line of sight he had, he has already stated he did not have his eyes on them the entire time.
    So you have absolutely nothing to your argument.
    It is nothing but foolishness on your part.


    The angle involved says he was being untruthful. Especially with the doors being open.


    Which does not give him a view of the other side of the Durango.
    Not to mention the fact that he moved towards her car anyways, and had to interact with it, thus taking his eyes off of the Durango. Duh!

    Location from her testimony.
    He would have had to been up in the blue area the whole time to see what happened on that side of the vehicle. But he wasn't.
    So stop with your nonsense.


    Location from his testimony.


    She honestly indicated that she was not able to see what happened on the other side of the Durngo, and by the angles involved, nether was he.
    But beside that, he already stated he did not have eyes on them the entire time, and as we can see by the angles involved he couldn't have regardless if he was on either side of the car or at it's rear.

    For him to be able to say such, he would have had to be standing far into the roadway the entire time they were out of the Durango. And he simply wasn't. He was preoccupied with the safty of his son.


    So you can just stop with all your nonsense. He didn't have his eyes on them the entire time.


    You clearly have no idea what has been argued.


    No I do not, because as already shown, I did not make the claim you say I made.
    And you have just now shown that you did not understand what was said to another poster as well.
    As usual, you are wrong and batting zero.
    Apparently the Durango was orientated and angled directly towards the two witnesses. So they should be able to see as much as they claimed to have seen, not to mention that for one of the two men to have ditched the shotgun without walking away from the Durango the shotgun would have just laid there in plain view especially so when the vehicle reversed back towards the gas station.

    Why are you being so difficult to admit that you are plain wrong?

    And why are you wasting so much time and energy on these two witnesses whom you claimed could not see what happened on the other side and did not have eyes on the two men the entire time (even though they had during the crucial moment) when they didn't see anything of a weapon let alone a shotgun either with the persons of the two men or being ditched or stash away by them in anyway? How are their testimonies in any way shape or form support your contention that the two men had the shotgun but was ditched or stashed? Where is your evidence to that?

    Remember, when another poster had asked you for evidence regarding your insistent claim that the boys had gun in their possession, the testimonies of these two witnesses were cited by you as your evidence. So, there you go again, shooting yourself in the foot at every turn while acting like you have conquered the whole wide world.

    So, please don't try to run away but answer me the question: where in the two witnesses' testimony where they said they saw or thought they saw a "Gun" anywhere? But, never mind, Excon, I know you can't answer that question without putting yourself in a bind. For crying out loud, I just have to put it there to remind you of your predicament.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Moderator's Warning:
    Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]Dolphinocean and Excon, stop the baiting and personal comments. Please stick to the topic, which is not each other.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Dunn testified that he saw Davis with a gun.
    Dunn's account is evidence.

    Like I said; You are in over your head here.
    And the jury has the ability to decide if they believe him or not.

    People can say lots of things. Does not make them true.

    Given Dunn's actions after the shooting...a jury would be well within their rights to decide he was less than truthful.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    And the jury has the ability to decide if they believe him or not.

    People can say lots of things. Does not make them true.

    Given Dunn's actions after the shooting...a jury would be well within their rights to decide he was less than truthful.



    It is like you think you are saying something that no one knows.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post



    It is like you think you are saying something that no one knows.
    Not sure you do......

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Not sure you do......
    As you are the one who has shown they do not fully understand things, you can only be thinking about yourself.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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