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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    The notion that Dunn politely told the kids to turn down the music as if it's a proven fact is laughable. The idea that he was the one who was trying to deescalate things while Jordan Davis was the one out of control is even more funny considering Dunn's demeanor in the trial video of him taking the stand and being crossed examined by John Guy. He was like trying to suppress a volcano within him while Guy was simply doing his job as a prosecutor in his murder case. I mean, if that guy got his hand on a gun he could have shot Guy right in the face between his eyes for a few good close shots he had with the Durango.

    So, on Dunn's so-called gentle and polite demeanor that night I call bs on that.

    Also, the medical examiners can only receive crime scene evidence and other information from the police investigators and the prosecution's office. The medical examiners don't go out to the crime scene and interview the shooting victims and witnesses to find out whether Jordan Davis was sitting in the front seat or back seat. Witnesses saw Davis friend sitting in the back seat crying uncontrollably while clutching Jordan Davis' dying body before they lay him down to the floor for resuscitation. The medical examiners don't go around collecting shell casings or go examine the bullet holes in the Durango. They obtained all these info, pictures and crime scene evidence directly from the police and the DA's office through proper chain of custody.

    When have we ever heard of the medical examiners taking anything relating to a crime from the average joe on the street or from family members or from the defense team? It's just a silly notion.

    For what the medical examine had, it is obvious that Davis was shot while sitting in the back seat. How else did the bullet trajectory entered his lower right side and ended up near the left shoulder just below the armpit?

    Michael Dunn had to be laying on the ground to shoot upward towards Davis if he was standing.

    And how did another bullet enter the right side of the thigh and ended up in the groin while another entered the lower left inner thigh to end up exiting the upper left outer thigh? Again, Michael Dunn would have to be laying down to get an upward diagonal trajectory.

    The only way the bullets could trace those trajectory through the body was when Davis was in seated position and these also lined up with the bullet holes and their paths that passed through the door panel of the back passenger compartment as demonstrated by the long dowels.

    All the elements and evidence are there for the medical examiner to make the conclusion. To say that she wasn't given all the information to consider ---- I call it bs.

    One thing the prosecution failed to do in Strolla's cross of the medical examiner was their failure to raise an objection when Strolla bashed her with a question "garbage in garbage out" that was purely meant to ridicule the medical examiner instead of posing a genuine question.
    I have to admit, I snicker at the thought of him "politely" asking them to turn down the music.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    The notion that Dunn politely told the kids to turn down the music as if it's a proven fact is laughable.
    Right!

    Both sides state this is what happened.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Should have done something else. Had every opportunity not to.

    His actions currently have him in jail for the rest of his "life"

    My guess is that the second shot at him will probably have him with a murder conviction. But frankly - icing on the cake. He is toast. He is probably being eyed to rush a prison fraternity as we speak. He should fit right in.
    according to one of the jury members 2 of the members had already made up their mind which would have resulted in a mistrial anyway. they managed to convince one other but the other 9 didn't go for it.

    there is enough evidence to suggest that dunn was not only not reasonable in his actions but negligent when it came to shooting his gun.
    other than dunn said his life was threatened there is no evidence to suggest that he was in any danger. the evidence we have conflicts with his testimony.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I have to admit, I snicker at the thought of him "politely" asking them to turn down the music.
    I snicker at the thought of Davis suddenly turned into an uncontrollable blood-thirsty killer that night. After all, I'm sure like most hot-headed teenagers, he would be having a lengthy history of threatening and killing tons of other teens in high school for the usual teenage quarrel and confrontation. And after all, that night they were planning for a good time cruising the mall for girls and thinking a shotgun on the floor of a tight back compartment was a very good idea to set the girls in romantic mood. It's absurd.

    He said they scowled at him but he turned away not paying no attention, rolled up his window and faced straight.That's because a confrontation was the last thing he was looking for. Yeah right.

    Jordan Davis saying: "I should f-ing KILL that m-f" and his polite "Excuse me - are you talking about me?" ----too sanitized. I call it bs.

    Jordan Davis coming at him with a 10 or 20 gauge shotgun saying "You're dead, bitch! This thing is going down now!" and he went to glove compartment to get his gun, put a bullet in the chamber and still have time to make a very polite and dramatic declarative line "You are not going to kill me you son of a bitch". It's ridiculous ----this bs never happened.

    John Guy should have asked him on the stand when he acted out under cross: "Is this the way you behaved on that night or worst?"

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    according to one of the jury members 2 of the members had already made up their mind which would have resulted in a mistrial anyway. they managed to convince one other but the other 9 didn't go for it.

    there is enough evidence to suggest that dunn was not only not reasonable in his actions but negligent when it came to shooting his gun.
    other than dunn said his life was threatened there is no evidence to suggest that he was in any danger. the evidence we have conflicts with his testimony.
    Also, Dunn himself stated that Jordan was advancing on him and that he apparently saw Dunn went for his weapon and dove back inside the SUV. By his own account alone he committed a cold blooded murder when the aggressor had already turned and retreated when he shot and kill Jordan not to mention his unleash of nine other rounds as the SUV was hurriedly retrieving.
    .

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Thank you for those references. By no means do I claim any level of expertise in these matters, but as someone involved in the early stages of a degree in laws and jurisprudence, I have some awareness of the meaning of the terms testimony and evidence (as they apply within British and international law).

    We both appear to understand the same thing with the term testimony, but perhaps there is a variation of understanding with the terms 'evidence', and 'testimonial evidence'.

    Within the legal system with which I am familiar, simple testimony is not regarded as evidence per se. It becomes testimonial evidence when it contains elements that serve as a proof of the veracity of an assertion.

    E.g: X is accused of a violent crime and asserts that he was not at that location but at the theatre. He quotes a minor mishap in the production not reported in the media. This testimony, when accepted by the court, serves as evidence of the truth of his statement, and serves as testimonial evidence (which differs from material, documentary, or circumstantial evidence).

    But please be advised that I respect your right to different opinions upon these matters, and I have no intention of engaging in page long discussions with you. We are at a point where we must simply agree to disagree in a civil manner.
    All this to say nothing different.
    Go figure!


    His account is evidence by itself.
    His account is evidence, as to the hows and whys of his actions.
    As the defendant, his account stands as is, unless disproved.
    His account stands even if it is shown not to be justified.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Should have done something else. Had every opportunity not to.
    As the law does not require that he do anything else. It is a good thing the Jury hung.


    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    His actions currently have him in jail for the rest of his "life"
    Currently.
    That may change. And there is a good possibility it may.


    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    My guess is that the second shot at him will probably have him with a murder conviction.
    Not if the Jury follows the law and the evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    He is toast.
    He is probably being eyed to rush a prison fraternity as we speak. He should fit right in.
    Irrelevant absurdity.


    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Oh good gracious.

    Reasonable people do not shoot up a car filled with people then get pizza and watch a movie.

    A sociopath, perhaps. Someone under the influence perhaps. A reasonable person? Not so much.
    Oh good gracious. Is correct.
    He was firing at the threat, not randomly shooting up some vehicle.
    That is what reasonable people do. Unreasonable people on the other hand, instead, let the individual carry through with their threat to kill them.





    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    I call bull****. That woman was so ****ed up in the head after this happened that she wouldn't even go into the hotel room at first. She was too scared. And if you read the transcripts, she said that he ordered the pizza for her, to see if it made her feel better. Now SHE? She was broken up. Not him. Her.
    What? ??? On direct, she got of the vehicle first and went straight up to the room and changed cloths. On cross, she confirmed she ran up to the room.
    So what are you referring to.


    He felt she needed something to eat help calm her stomach.
    She is the one who wanted pizza.
    She is the one who called the front desk for the information to order pizza.
    He is the one that placed the order for the pizza that she asked him to order.

    So again: She asked him to order a pizza because she was hungry. Folks do have to eat you know.

    His suggesting that she eat something really matters not. His suggestion, and her desire for pizza, was to calm her stomach.






    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    They obtained all these info, pictures and crime scene evidence directly from the police and the DA's office through proper chain of custody.
    And the information that he was shot while in the vehicle, yet were not given the shooters account of what happened.
    Go figure.



    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    When have we ever heard of the medical examiners taking anything relating to a crime from the average joe on the street or from family members or from the defense team? It's just a silly notion.
    Nonsense. They are routinely given the defendants account to disprove it didn't happen that way.
    It wasn't in this case.
    That speaks of subterfuge on the part of the prosecutor.



    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    For what the medical examine had, it is obvious that Davis was shot while sitting in the back seat.
    Oy vey!
    From what she had is correct.
    She made her conclusions fit the information she was given.


    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    How else did the bullet trajectory entered his lower right side and ended up near the left shoulder just below the armpit?

    Michael Dunn had to be laying on the ground to shoot upward towards Davis if he was standing.

    And how did another bullet enter the right side of the thigh and ended up in the groin while another entered the lower left inner thigh to end up exiting the upper left outer thigh? Again, Michael Dunn would have to be laying down to get an upward diagonal trajectory.

    The only way the bullets could trace those trajectory through the body was when Davis was in seated position and these also lined up with the bullet holes and their paths that passed through the door panel of the back passenger compartment as demonstrated by the long dowels.
    The Doctor was clear that her conclusions were only drawn on that she was given. And that she was not given any alternate information by which to go by.
    Had she, her conclusions may have been different.
    And by what the defense suggests, Davis was diving back into the vehicle, putting his body horizontal when the bullets were fired.
    Which is very plausible.

    But since information wasn't given to her, and she could not consider it, which makes her conclusions are faulty.


    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    All the elements and evidence are there for the medical examiner to make the conclusion. To say that she wasn't given all the information to consider ---- I call it bs.
    Bs is her conclusions, because they were not based on all the information.


    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    One thing the prosecution failed to do in Strolla's cross of the medical examiner was their failure to raise an objection when Strolla bashed her with a question "garbage in garbage out" that was purely meant to ridicule the medical examiner instead of posing a genuine question.

    It wasn't bashing. It emphasized the point that her conclusion was flawed for lack of information.


    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Also, Dunn himself stated that Jordan was advancing on him and that he apparently saw Dunn went for his weapon and dove back inside the SUV. By his own account alone he committed a cold blooded murder when the aggressor had already turned and retreated when he shot and kill Jordan not to mention his unleash of nine other rounds as the SUV was hurriedly retrieving.

    Wrong. A person taking cover to shoot, is still a threat to be eliminated.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Currently.
    That may change. And there is a good possibility it may.
    My rough guess is that under existing convictions, Dunn could walk in 10 years if:
    A- The judge gives him the most favorable sentence possible (20 years for attempted murder, but all sentences, including firing into a vehicle are to be served consecutivly)
    B- The parole board is extrremely favorable and approves him for parole after serving 50% of his sentence.

    Of course the possibility of these things happening is remote.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Oh good gracious. Is correct.
    He was firing at the threat, not randomly shooting up some vehicle.
    That is what reasonable people do. Unreasonable people on the other hand, instead, let the individual carry through with their threat to kill them.
    .
    The threat of being killed by an imaginary gun.

    The threat of being killed as they were driving off.

    Seriously. Your unwavering belief in this man is just amzing.

    You make like a jury has to believe his self defense story when all evidence points to it being a fabrication.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    I gotta laugh at the desperate idea that the medical examiner was not given the shooter's account of what happened. The shooter's account was that the menacing looking Jordan and his buddy, Leblanc, were sitting at the back passenger seat exactly as the prosecution said they were. So, there was no argument about that info when the medical examiner was given that info by the prosecution and she based her finding of Jordan seated at the back passenger seat instead of the front seat or anywhere else when the bullets entered his body the way they did.

    The only thing different the shooter claimed was that Jordan had got out of the Durango and coming at him when Dunn went for his gun. But that shooter's account had been addressed and knocked down by the medical examiner based on the physical evidence: plastic pieces of the door panel were found only inside the back of the Durango, Davis shot dead inside at his seat with the car door closed and the bullet trajectory based on the bullet holes and the direction of the long dowels through the door matched up and consistent with the bullet trajectory through Jordan's body with him seated and leaning away from the direction of firing. The bullet trajectory did not match up in any way whatsoever if Jordan was standing at the door when the bullets entered the door panel where he was standing. How the heck did the bullets ended up from the level of the door panel to his armpit below his left shoulder in a diagonally upward direction if he was standing and got hit?

    If Jordan was diving back horizontally into the SUV when shot the bullet trajectory would have entered from the back and travel along the back of the spinal column and not in front that severed his aorta and punctured his lung. But, most likely the bullets would have not hit Jordan at all given the bullet paths as demonstrated by the dowels if the door was open.

    It's just absurd.

    All the medical examiner needed were the bullet holes in the Durango with the long dowels showing their paths, the bullet trajectory through Jordan's body and where Jordan was seated which was never in dispute by any person not even Dunn nor Strolla. If the bullet paths through the door panel were consistent with the bullet trajectory through Jordan's body in a seated position at the back seat location as described by the medical examiner and inconsistent with him standing at the door as the shooter claimed, then that's all there is to it.

    So yes, the medical examination had included the shooter's account and found his claim wanting. Perhaps the medical examiner should have demonstrated with an exemplar of someone with Jordan's height and build standing at all possible various angles and at all possible ranges of door excursion with the wooden dowels imposed upon the body to show the three dumb and brain dead jurors how it's not possible for the bullet to make a upward turn at a door panel level and turning upward towards the left shoulder.
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 02-21-14 at 05:51 PM.

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