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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

  1. #161
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I see your point. I can't imagine me ever saying anything to anyone while I'm waiting around at a gas station. His life would be much better now if he'd just started dancin'. (Which is probably what I would have done . . . acknowledged the music is loud-loud-loud -- which might make me happy to pass along to them -- and join the party.)

    That guy was filled with bad decisions. That's why I think he was probably alcohol impaired from his son's wedding. That's the only scenerio I can think of where I might not stay at the scene . . . they drove off as he was SHOOTING AT THE DAMNED CAR. I think the wild-assed assumption that he was drunk answers the question of "Why the HELL did he drive off and not contact the cops???"
    Maybe one of the things they should teach in gun safety classes is to leave the gun at home if you're going to be drinking....Gee, drinking, driving, shooting, what could possibly go wrong?" If he had killed them in a car crash, he'd easily be getting prison time, but apparently some people are willing to give him a pass because he used a gun.

    It really should be like driving a car - prove you can use it safely, and if someone dies because you used it while you were drunk there's big trouble. I know that driving a car isn't a "right" in the Constitution (though I think that if there were cars in 1787 and they were as much a part of our culture as they are now it would be).


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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If both people had guns, how do you decide which side you're on? Usually with you, anybody with a gun is automatically right.

    The problem with excon is that he believes every word that dunn said is true. he ignores all the other facts of the case.
    1. police found no gun. video tape evidence show the kids were gone less than 2 minutes as they went back to the gas station for help.

    2. given testimony from everyone there is no way that dunn got out of the car.
    a. Dunn even testified that they were parked close enough that him getting out would be difficult.
    b. his friends testified that the child safety locks were on which means it would be impossible to open the back door from the inside.

    3. the medical examiner supports this as according to them he was shot sitting down and falling away from the door. probably trying to duck behind it as dunn started shooting.
    4. Dunn didn't mention anything about a gun to his wife even though he testified that he did which puts the gun into question.

    as i said you can't make up stuff and then shoot someone in so called self defense you have to have evidence of an actual threat. lieing about a threat just to try and claim self defense is still murder.

    contrary to what he thinks you are responsible for any collateral damage you may cause as well. that includes shooting at or hitting innocent people.

    as for the murder charge they could have been hung on it because they just gave the guy at least 20 years. what is the point of giving him more. he is going to be close to dead when he gets out more so if he gets the maximum which would be 60 years.

    we will see what the next jury says. probably will get at least manslaughter. there just not enough doubt to say martin was a threat. not to mention dunn's own testimony is inconsistent with the data.
    Last edited by ludin; 02-17-14 at 11:21 AM.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    The problem with excon is that he believes every word that dunn said is true. he ignores all the other facts of the case.
    He always believes the white guy with a gun. Every last time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    He always believes the white guy with a gun. Every last time.
    zimmerman was hard because again they went murder 1. the problem is that they had pictures of where zimmerman was in a fight. so that in and of itself created enough doubt.
    i think he shot the kid and it didn't happen like he said it did. his actions after the trial have pretty much proved that.

    this is the same case here only this time there is no evidence of a threat at all unless you believe everything dunn says as true.
    we know that at least some of the jury members thought he was guilty of murder but not all of them. we will see what the next jury says.

    yea i have to agree his narrative is way off and highly bias.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    The problem with excon is that he believes every word that dunn said is true. he ignores all the other facts of the case.
    1. police found no gun. video tape evidence show the kids were gone less than 2 minutes as they went back to the gas station for help.

    2. given testimony from everyone there is no way that dunn got out of the car.
    a. Dunn even testified that they were parked close enough that him getting out would be difficult.
    b. his friends testified that the child safety locks were on which means it would be impossible to open the back door from the inside.

    3. the medical examiner supports this as according to them he was shot sitting down and falling away from the door. probably trying to duck behind it as dunn started shooting.
    4. Dunn didn't mention anything about a gun to his wife even though he testified that he did which puts the gun into question.

    as i said you can't make up stuff and then shoot someone in so called self defense you have to have evidence of an actual threat. lieing about a threat just to try and claim self defense is still murder.

    contrary to what he thinks you are responsible for any collateral damage you may cause as well. that includes shooting at or hitting innocent people.

    as for the murder charge they could have been hung on it because they just gave the guy at least 20 years. what is the point of giving him more. he is going to be close to dead when he gets out more so if he gets the maximum which would be 60 years.

    we will see what the next jury says. probably will get at least manslaughter. there just not enough doubt to say martin was a threat. not to mention dunn's own testimony is inconsistent with the data.
    I think the mistake ExCon makes is believing that the state has to disprove his version of events. I, on the other hand, believe that's up to the jury to decide. Is the defendant's claim believable? Not even beyond a shadow of a doubt...but more likely than not. He also doesn't seem to understand "affirmative defense." There's no doubting that he shot and killed the young man. Now it's up to him to show that, more likely than not, it happened the way he says it happened.

    It's important to keep in mind, though, that the jury was hung on the teen's murder. Some/many couldn't find him guilty on that particular charge, even though, as I understand it, they could have found him guilty on a lesser charge. (I'm not sure about that, but I personally don't see 1st Degree Murder.)

    What they did say loud and clear, though, is that you can't shoot willy-nilly into a car without it being attempted murder.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    I couldn't imagine saying something to someone at a gas station because...

    1) Gas station wine wtf? He had to be drunk. At least go to the local grocery store.

    2) Just grab something and go. That's like less than three minutes to run in and buy something. He had to be drunk. To be aggravated that quickly. Hell go into the store with your girlfriend.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    One of the things which worries me in the position taken by those defending Dunn's actions, is the assumption that Dunn's assertions comprise evidence.

    Evidence is defined by the Oxford English Dictionaries as - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Evidence is not the belief or proposition itself, it is material supporting that proposition.

    At law, it may be information drawn from personal testimony, a document, or a material object, used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in a court of law, and perhaps it is that information which is being confused with the actual testimony. An assertion given in testimony is no more than an assertion - it is not evidence if unsupported by any corroborative material or circumstance.

    One of the other elements which needs to be understood, is that of reasonable force employed in the course of self-defence. Opinions differ upon what constitutes reasonable force but, in all cases, the defendant does not have the right to determine what constitutes "reasonable force" because the defendant would always maintain they acted reasonably and thus would never be guilty. The jury, as ordinary members of the community, must decide the amount of force reasonable in the circumstances of each case. It is relevant that the defendant was under pressure from imminent attack and may not have had time to make entirely rational decisions, so the test must balance the objective standard of a reasonable person by attributing some of the subjective knowledge of the defendant, including what they believed about the circumstances, even if mistaken. However, even allowing for mistakes made in a crisis, the amount of force must be proportionate and reasonable given the value of the interests being protected and the harm likely to be caused by use of force.

    In addition to which, the perception of a threat or imminent danger may not be entirely subjective. The test is always that of how a reasonable person will have perceived it - and this is part of the reason we have juries.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    One possible reason is that he knew that he had screwed up, big-time.
    Yup.

    I think some people believe their gun rights are so absolute that they are dumbstruck that their weapons really don't give them the right to do as they please. When they are struck with that reality it must be quite the revelation.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Maybe one of the things they should teach in gun safety classes is to leave the gun at home if you're going to be drinking....Gee, drinking, driving, shooting, what could possibly go wrong?" If he had killed them in a car crash, he'd easily be getting prison time, but apparently some people are willing to give him a pass because he used a gun.

    It really should be like driving a car - prove you can use it safely, and if someone dies because you used it while you were drunk there's big trouble. I know that driving a car isn't a "right" in the Constitution (though I think that if there were cars in 1787 and they were as much a part of our culture as they are now it would be).
    Some good points here, but I don't leave my gun at home just because I may be having a drink. But I don't drink more than would allow me to drive either, so I don't I see the presence of my gun as necessarily a problem. I absolutely don't drink when I go to the gun range, but the reason for having the gun is for my protection---- even if I have had a couple of beers. Which if you think about it is the same with an off duty police officer. A cop doesn't just leave his gun at home if he is going to a wedding reception. At least not the one's I know.

    The problem here is that Dunn and a few others who have done similar failed to appreciate that while they are carrying a weapon they should have a DUTY to avoid all types of arguments and confrontations or any situation where they will be introducing that firearm into a conflict that could otherwise be avoided. Carrying a gun and guy takes your parking space--- move on, get over it, don't argue. WHY? Well, if it turns into a pushing match and I feel threatened with injury or death, it may end up me having to use the gun.

    IF Dunn had followed common sense while he had his gun, he wouldn't have even bothered to say one word about the loud music. If he assumed they were "thugs" anyway--- why not just ignore them (when you have a gun). It's not like the gas station was his home; he could have been in and out of there in two minutes without any conflict. And if it were that these teens were criminals who for some reason just out of the blue decided to attack Dunn, even despite he had already been drinking--- AND he was in real danger without a way to retreat and he used his gun---- this would have been a justifiable homicide.

    But that didn't happen. Dunn believed that he had "extra power" to back up his silly testosterone filled demands for RESPECT, and now a young man is dead and Dunn will likely spend the rest of his life in prison. Not because of his right to carry a gun and protect himself, but because he is FOOL.

    My advice to gun owners. Don't be a dumbass.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Don't be a dumbass is great advice.

    How about this one. Don't get sucked into believing what every gun rights zealot tells you.

    It is possible to be staunchly second amendment and also agree that there is a duty to not be a dumbass idiot looking for trouble.

    And yeah, of course he was LOOKING for confrontation. Perhaps not with a firearm...but he certainly was looking for it.

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