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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

  1. #111
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    As the reasonable man standard that is written into the law goes towards his actions to what he perceived. Even the Jury instruction tells you that the threat need not be actual.
    Just that the threat needs to appear to be so real to the defendant.

    The reasonableness standard goes to his actions in response to it.
    You obviously don't really understand how the self-defense law works. Whether he perceived a threat is irrelevant. The standard is whether a reasonable person in the same situation would perceive a threat. And no reasonable person would perceive a car they had already fired several rounds into that was now fleeing from them to be a threat.

    I'm done here though, this is pointless because you're just reiterating your same talking points over and over, regardless of how many times they get refuted. We know you think he's innocent, fortunately you weren't on the jury.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  2. #112
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    You obviously don't really understand how the self-defense law works.
    It is obviously you that does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Whether he perceived a threat is irrelevant.
    Wrong. Read the Jury instruction.
    The threat doesn't even have to be actual. Just appear to be so real to the defendant. And in this case it was.


    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    The standard is whether a reasonable person in the same situation would perceive a threat.
    Wrong.
    The standard is if that which he is on trial for, his actions was reasonable. As written it clearly goes to the reasonableness of his reaction to threat.
    Read the law.
    It is clear.
    and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    The reasonableness goes to the force used in return.
    That is what the law requires.


    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    And no reasonable person would perceive a car they had already fired several rounds into that was now fleeing from them to be a threat.
    Wrong.
    The distance was very limited.
    The person being shot as was not driving.
    Because of the vehicles tint, he had no idea if the threat was going to fire back at any moment.
    Under such circumstances it is more than permissible to continue to fire until they are sufficiently out of range.


    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm done here though, this is pointless because you're just reiterating your same talking points over and over, regardless of how many times they get refuted. We know you think he's innocent, fortunately you weren't on the jury.

    You are done because you are wrong and can not see the failing of your own arguments.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  3. #113
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) I agree and said so many times myself in many posts/threads.

    what seems weird though is, say they did have a juror stuck on M2 or manslaughter, why didnt the rest of the jurors just come down to that lesser charge? I mean he is basically going to jail for life anyway.

    this makes me think there was somebody mentally retarded enough on that jury to think he is innocent.
    Can the jury hand out a lesser charge if the state is only asking the jury is defendant guilty of first degree murder?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #114
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Can the jury hand out a lesser charge if the state is only asking the jury is defendant guilty of first degree murder?
    There were lesser charges included. the problem is all the jury members have to agree to the charges. they had a split jury IE only part of them agreed it was some form of murder and others did not.

    now this lead to a mistrial which means he is still charged with murder 1 and the prosecution is going to retry.

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Can the jury hand out a lesser charge if the state is only asking the jury is defendant guilty of first degree murder?
    i dont know the answer to your question in general


    but in this case the answer is yes, they were allowed to charge with M1, M2 or M3(manslaughter)

    now I dont know if this has to be established before hand or is case by case or different in different states but it was true in this case

    same with the charges they did decide on. THe original charges where M1 and attempted M1 and firing into an occupied vehicle.

    They came back hung on M1 and on a lesser charge of attempted M2. This is also why they read it they way they do in court "a lesser charge"

    but again i dont know the answer to your question in general
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  6. #116
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    If you had a shotgun in your car and somebody had just killed your buddy and now is just standing there shooting at you what would you do with a powerful shotgun?
    If I am the driver and the shotgun is out of reach then I am driving off because the time it takes to reach for the gun can get me and everyone else killed. If I am one of the wounded passengers I might be in too much pain or in shock over the fact I was shot to worry about firing back. Or even if I wasn't one the injured I might be more concerned about the fact my friends were shot instead of worrying about firing back.


    I would have blasted his ass in self defense to save myself.
    Unless of course all you had was a steel pipe. Plus you do not know what you would have done in that situation.Have you been in a similar situation?


    There was no shotgun.
    You do not know that.You were not there.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I agree with you about the Zimmerman comparison. There is none. If I'm not mistaken, the only person comparing it to the Zimmerman/Martin case was the defense attorney. Nice try.
    The author of the article compares it to the Zimmerman case and from what I heard on MSNBC they compare it to the Zimmerman case as well.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #118
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The author of the article compares it to the Zimmerman case and from what I heard on MSNBC they compare it to the Zimmerman case as well.
    Only similarity in my mind is that the black guy ended up shot dead.

  9. #119
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If I am the driver and the shotgun is out of reach then I am driving off because the time it takes to reach for the gun can get me and everyone else killed. If I am one of the wounded passengers I might be in too much pain or in shock over the fact I was shot to worry about firing back. Or even if I wasn't one the injured I might be more concerned about the fact my friends were shot instead of worrying about firing back.




    Unless of course all you had was a steel pipe. Plus you do not know what you would have done in that situation.Have you been in a similar situation?




    You do not know that.You were not there.
    Correct neither of us were there and this is Monday quarterbacking. But I do know from past experiences I have jumped in for a friend who was being threaten to fight and have even jumped in before for a complete stranger.

    But I do know there is that survivor mode we have in us and if somebody is shooting at me and I have a shotgun at my access I am going to fire back. If there was a shotgun, and I believe this story came out as an afterthought by Dunn, it was on the victim and the passenger could have easily picked it up. Even with them backing up he was firing into them. I just can't believe one of these guys who many described as gangster thugs wouldn't have grabbed that gun and fired back.

    But the biggest red herring is that he did not immediately report this to the police that day or even the next.

    Let me ask you this. If you had just shot the crap out of a car with 4 people in it , regardless if you were in the right or not , could you honestly just drive to a bed and breakfast and enjoy a pizza? I would be on the phone to the authorities and an attorney. I would not have any appetite that night worrying about my outcome when this is investigated.

  10. #120
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The jury was given the option (according to CNN) of choosing First Degree Murder, Second Degree Murder or Manslaughter. At least one clueless idiot couldn't vote for any of 'em.
    Second degree and manslaughter were the other two options. They couldn't agree on any of the three. My guess is there was one hold out who was on Dunn's side refused to allow a unanimous vote. In fact, based on jury questions, it seems they unanimously agreed to attempted murder of the friends BEFORE the jury realized those counts could be rendered separately while being deadlocked on the primary charge. I honestly wonder if it had been realized he would go to prison for life, would the jury and my theory of a pro-Dunn advocate on the jury would have agreed unanimously on the other counts until it was too late.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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