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Thread: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial[W:336]

  1. #101
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    This has to be a big event for Excon. Its like the super bowl for football players, Halloween for Party City stores, Valentine's day for chocolate peddlers. A black kid gets killed by a white guy for some absurd reason and Excon is right there, doing everything he can to play devil's advocate.

    I wouldn't recommend feeding him, these are his greatest moments.

  2. #102
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Since he was convicted of attempted murder, that makes no sense. Since it took so long for a verdict, I was suspecting nullification by one or more jurists. I don't think that happened . . . or it would have been a hung jury on all counts.



    Apparently you don't understand an affirmative defense.



    We are judged by the totality of our actions. His defense team asked the jury to believe that what was going on in his head was a fight for his life. The fact that he did a very unnatural thing, left the scene, didn't call the cops, is as fair to consider as his state of mind.



    His explanation of why he left the scene isn't believable. But a high BAC would explain in. Nothing else does. She's a train wreck because . . . ?



    You'll get no apology from me. The jury found him guilty. In a poll taken on this site, 31 of 33 people thought he was guilty. Ex doesn't think so. Ex thinks all someone has to say is, "I thought I saw a gun," and the prosecution has to disprove it. And if they can't? He walks. Well, the rest of the world disagrees with you.

    I'm not arguing this claiming he was innocent. BUT if he HAD stuck around it would be evidence that he wasn't afraid at all. What would be relevant is his not calling the police later. But had he not left the scene and with 3 still alive and his claim they had what looked like a gun to him, then his staying would prove he was not in fear whatsoever and prove he didn't really believe they had a gun.

    One other thing... I ALWAYS do not agree when the police or prosecution try to prove something by claiming a person wasn't acting normally. That always is playing to xenophobia - that there must be something wrong with someone who doesn't act exactly like you do.

    In his situation if it was as he claims it was - 4 people and with a gun and threatening him with it - I would not have stuck around - unless I WANTED to make certain I had killed all 4 or some other bad reason. How could he POSSIBLY claim he was afraid and thought they had a gun if he had stuck around?

    Is your point you would have stayed to go over and make sure all 4 were dead or disabled shooting those who were not?

    His not calling the police for hours is another matter.

  3. #103
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This has to be a big event for Excon. Its like the super bowl for football players, Halloween for Party City stores, Valentine's day for chocolate peddlers. A black kid gets killed by a white guy for some absurd reason and Excon is right there, doing everything he can to play devil's advocate.

    I wouldn't recommend feeding him, these are his greatest moments.
    Wrong as usual.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And you are wrong there as well.
    Lets see?
    Guy is screaming obscenities at you and verbally threatens your life.
    Guy presents object (seen as a shotgun barrel) intended to present threat as real.
    Guy then says it is going down now and starts getting out of the vehicle to carry through with said threat.

    The person being threatened with imminent death is not required to flee, and he is not required to be harmed first before responding to such an imminent threat.
    Responding with deadly force is reasonable under such circumstances.
    So you are just wrong.

    It all boils down to belief of what he said.
    The prosecution did not disprove his account as evidenced by the Jury not make a decision in regards to it.
    Re Bolded area

    No gun was found, the guy was stating there was a gun only to use self defense in court. He shot at the guy because he got mad, and never told the police because he did not want to get arrested and hoped he would not be found out
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  5. #105
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I'm not arguing this claiming he was innocent. BUT if he HAD stuck around it would be evidence that he wasn't afraid at all. What would be relevant is his not calling the police later. But had he not left the scene and with 3 still alive and his claim they had what looked like a gun to him, then his staying would prove he was not in fear whatsoever and prove he didn't really believe they had a gun.

    One other thing... I ALWAYS do not agree when the police or prosecution try to prove something by claiming a person wasn't acting normally. That always is playing to xenophobia - that there must be something wrong with someone who doesn't act exactly like you do.

    In his situation if it was as he claims it was - 4 people and with a gun and threatening him with it - I would not have stuck around - unless I WANTED to make certain I had killed all 4 or some other bad reason. How could he POSSIBLY claim he was afraid and thought they had a gun if he had stuck around?

    Is your point you would have stayed to go over and make sure all 4 were dead or disabled shooting those who were not?

    His not calling the police for hours is another matter.
    The reasonable man theory is an important part of our legal system. Always has been. I would say it's no more evident than in self-defense cases. In Dunn's case, it's the totality of what he did . . . not just that he didn't stay there. As I understand it, though, the kids drove away. He was firing at their car as they were doing so.

    Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Shag girlfriend back into the car and book. Go back to the hotel and order a pizza. Find out a guy's dead. Watch a movie. Get some sleep. Drive home. Get arrested.

    In my wildest imagination, using every scenerio I can think of, I cannot picture myself acting in such a manner.

  6. #106
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Re Bolded area

    No gun was found, the guy was stating there was a gun only to use self defense in court. He shot at the guy because he got mad, and never told the police because he did not want to get arrested and hoped he would not be found out
    Circumstantial evidence suggestion it did exist, so it matters not if it was found or wasn't.
    And he did not shoot because he was mad. He shot because he was in fear for his life.
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Circumstantial evidence suggestion it did exist, so it matters not if it was found or wasn't.
    And he did not shoot because he was mad. He shot because he was in fear for his life.
    He was so afraid for his life that he did not mention the incident to his SO, or call the police.

    That is not the action of a man who was afraid for his life and shot at someone with justification. It is the action of someone who realized he just fd up.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    He was so afraid for his life that he did not mention the incident to his SO, or call the police.

    That is not the action of a man who was afraid for his life and shot at someone with justification. It is the action of someone who realized he just fd up.
    Simply wrong.
    Not everyone acts the same way after a traumatic experience. His GF remembering what he said matters not, especially as this was traumatic for her too. Nor was there a requirement to contact the police or remain in the area in fear for your life in an unfamiliar environment.
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  9. #109
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And you are wrong there as well.
    Lets see?
    Guy is screaming obscenities at you and verbally threatens your life.
    Guy presents object (seen as a shotgun barrel) intended to present threat as real.
    Guy then says it is going down now and starts getting out of the vehicle to carry through with said threat.

    The person being threatened with imminent death is not required to flee, and he is not required to be harmed first before responding to such an imminent threat.
    Responding with deadly force is reasonable under such circumstances.
    So you are just wrong.
    That's not the part I'm saying is unreasonable.
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    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #110
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    Re: Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    That's not the part I'm saying is unreasonable.
    Well then you are not speaking to the law. As the reasonable man standard that is written into the law goes towards his actions to what he perceived. Even the Jury instruction tells you that the threat need not be actual.
    Just that the threat needs to appear to be so real to the defendant.

    The reasonableness standard goes to his actions in response to it.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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