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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

zimmer said:
Sorry, but the "oppression" will be a never ending story.
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Correct, actually:

"The basic machinery for gut reactions and snap judgments was present in the brains of our distant ancestors, and the same structures are still found in our brains today, primarily in the human subcortex," wrote Amodio in his article, "The Egalitarian Brain." "These relatively simple mechanisms for detecting us vs. them — and for automatically treating 'them' as a threat — are quite helpful for species living in basic societies that do not require cooperation with outside groups."
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But not necessarily:
Does this mean bias is hardwired into our brains, even though our society has changed? No, according to Amodio. The brain is flexible and can learn to ignore its biased impulses.
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It's far from the first article I've seen that suggests that the potential for racism, or any other form of us vs. them mentality, is actually hardwired into our brains, but those studies consistently show that those aren't our strongest instincts, and can in fact even be "turned off."

Does this mean bias is hardwired into our brains, even though our society has changed? No, according to Amodio. The brain is flexible and can learn to ignore its biased impulses.
Click to expand...

Are we hardwired to be racist? | Minnesota Public Radio News

So the bad news is that with regards to jingoism, racism, homophobia, etc., we're all sort of like alcoholics in that there is no cure, per se. The good news is that with the right upbringing, none of us have to actually be bigots at all.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, as I've told you, I would hope that a Constitutional Amendment process happens (though I doubt it will). If it does, those who are anti-SSM aren't going to like the outcome.
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Seems that the gay rights advocates aren't so sure as every gay thread gets almost maximum participation. Your opinion noted as is mine. We shall see one of these days. The argument just goes to show how historically challenged these advocates are when it comes to the Constitution and what is in it. Equal protection applies to the Constitution and what is in it, not what isn't/
 
Conservative said:
Equal protection applies to the Constitution and what is in it, not what isn't/
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Oy vey iz mir.

What equal protection applies to is equal protection of people under the law. If you read anything anybody here posted you'd know that.
 
Conservative said:
Seems that the gay rights advocates aren't so sure as every gay thread gets almost maximum participation. Your opinion noted as is mine. We shall see one of these days. The argument just goes to show how historically challenged these advocates are when it comes to the Constitution and what is in it. Equal protection applies to the Constitution and what is in it, not what isn't/
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I would recommend reading the 14th amendment. You might find it enlightening.
 
Cardinal said:
Oy vey iz mir.

What equal protection applies to is equal protection of people under the law. If you read anything anybody here posted you'd know that.
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The Constitution defines the role of the Federal Govt. and anything in the Constitution is subject to the equal protection clause. Anything not in the Constitution is relegated to the states. Marriage isn't in the Constitution, it is a state issue. You are so blinded by our own personal opinion and desires that you simply cannot understand what our Founders did nor do you understand the Constitution. Then you hang your argument on what certain courts around the country have ruled ignoring the ones that rule in favor of states rights including the SC. What is it about this issue that creates such passion. You want to get married, move to a state that authorizes it. Let the people of the states handle the issue. If the people of TX voted to allow same sex marriage then so be it, but no you people cannot leave well enough alone, cannot understand states rights, and the will of the people. You are the problem not the solution
 
Anomalism said:
Don't get your hopes up.
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Please explain to me how discrimination is even an issue when every American has the same opportunity to marry someone of the opposite sex and where sexual orientation is even an issue? You want your personal desires to be given equal protection and that is never going to happen. You are entitled to them but you certainly aren't guaranteed protection other than the right to have them
 
Conservative said:
The Constitution defines the role of the Federal Govt. and anything in the Constitution is subject to the equal protection clause. Anything not in the Constitution is relegated to the states. Marriage isn't in the Constitution, it is a state issue. You are so blinded by our own personal opinion and desires that you simply cannot understand what our Founders did nor do you understand the Constitution. Then you hang your argument on what certain courts around the country have ruled ignoring the ones that rule in favor of states rights including the SC. What is it about this issue that creates such passion. You want to get married, move to a state that authorizes it. Let the people of the states handle the issue. If the people of TX voted to allow same sex marriage then so be it, but no you people cannot leave well enough alone, cannot understand states rights, and the will of the people. You are the problem not the solution
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Since you still have not read the 14th amendment, let me help. Here is the relevant portion:
  • Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Now really, all of it applies, but note especially the part I underlined. Note that it does not say "equal protection of the constitution", it says "of the laws". This makes you wrong. Very wrong.
 
Cardinal said:
Oy vey iz mir.

What equal protection applies to is equal protection of people under the law. If you read anything anybody here posted you'd know that.
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What you don't seem to understand is that the SC has had numerous opportunities to rule on the definition of marriage and has yet to do so. Do you have any idea why? The SC has always ruled on the site of states' rights and although you seem to believe it is an equal protection issue the SC hasn't ruled on that as it relates to state laws. If it were an equal protection issue the SC would have ruled a long time ago. That indicates to me that the SC doesn't buy your argument about sexual orientation being a civil right and that states have the right to define marriage which most have done. Activist justices have overturned the votes of the people and overstepped their power by tying marriage to the EP section and yet the SC hasn't ruled on that, why?
 
Conservative said:
1.)You put a lot of faith in circuit courts including the 9th out of San Francisco which has a history of being the most overturned court in the country yet for some reason those justice rulings are supported by people like you but only when they support your point of view.

2.)You want facts

3.) then start with the Constitution and the history behind it.

4.) You have a very poor understanding of the FACT that if it isn't in the Constitution then it is a state responsibility

5.) and that is where marriage originated and belongs.

6.) Equal protection applies only to issues in the Constitution.

7.)Seems like a simple concept that you cannot grasp
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1.) weird, can you quote me mention them, or even hinting anything about the 9th? nope you cant because its another lie and made up strawman that completely fails
can you argue anything that actually has merit or is accurate or is factual or can we just continue to expect you to makes stuff up, post lies and failed strawmen over and over lol

2.) yes i do because you havent presented even ONE that matters

3.) fine by me

4.) you keep saying this lie and opinion but nobody buys it the way your subjective opinion applies it, we just laugh at it. Rape isnt in the constitution, guess that means the states can allow rape right? lol

5.) nope sorry if it infringes on individual rights the fed takes over and protects those rights

6.) false, why do you ignore the history and facts you just told me to pay attention too

7.) because you "simply" apply it wrong and HISTORY, judges, court cases, laws and rights prove this.

I love the fear and panic in your posts, its very reassuring to all those that support equal rights and freedom.

thanks for playing

#EqualRightsAreWinning!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
AGENT J said:
1.) weird, can you quote me mention them, or even hinting anything about the 9th? nope you cant because its another lie and made up strawman that completely fails
can you argue anything that actually has merit or is accurate or is factual or can we just continue to expect you to makes stuff up, post lies and failed strawmen over and over lol

2.) yes i do because you havent presented even ONE that matters

3.) fine by me

4.) you keep saying this lie and opinion but nobody buys it the way your subjective opinion applies it, we just laugh at it. Rape isnt in the constitution, guess that means the states can allow rape right? lol

5.) nope sorry if it infringes on individual rights the fed takes over and protects those rights

6.) false, why do you ignore the history and facts you just told me to pay attention too

7.) because you "simply" apply it wrong and HISTORY, judges, court cases, laws and rights prove this.

I love the fear and panic in your posts, its very reassuring to all those that support equal rights and freedom.

thanks for playing

#EqualRightsAreWinning!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I could respond to the line items in your post and provide you with the answers you are looking for but then that would prevent you from taking a civics and history course to learn about our Founders, the Constitution, and the way out govt. runs.

what I really am scared of is the ignorance of far too many and the only solution to ignorance is education. I can provide you the source of some good schools to help you

I am sure that everyday you can find something that interferes with your individual rights but getting married isn't one of them. You can marry anyone of the opposite sex you want or will have you just like me. That is equal protection as indicated by Loving v. Va. but no, people like you just want attention, are malcontents and want the title of married when civil unions will do the same thing or domestic Partnerships. I don't have any respect for people using equal protection as justification for redefining marriage against the will of the people
 
Conservative said:
1.)I could respond to the line items in your post and provide you with the answers you are looking for but then that would prevent you from taking a civics and history course to learn about our Founders, the Constitution, and the way out govt. runs.

2.)what I really am scared of is the ignorance of far too many and the only solution to ignorance is education. I can provide you the source of some good schools to help you

3.)I am sure that everyday you can find something that interferes with your individual rights but getting married isn't one of them. You can marry anyone of the opposite sex you want or will have you just like me. That is equal protection as indicated by Loving v. Va. but no, people like you just want attention, are malcontents and want the title of married when civil unions will do the same thing or domestic Partnerships. I don't have any respect for people using equal protection as justification for redefining marriage against the will of the people
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translation: you still have no facts to support you, yes we know
1.) hey look right on time. When an individual cant defend thier failed arguments and many posters simply destroy them with facts the next path to take is failed insults. This is usually dont because there is no logical, honest, accurate or intellectual path to take.

Thanks for further proving our points lol

2.) see 1# the exposure and failures of your posts continue and its hilarious

3.) once again, laws, rights, judges, facts and court cases disagree with you.

remind us what you have on your side again? oh thats right just you saying "nu-huh" lol

extras
I can get married now, im straight, i want my the illegal discrimination against my fellow americans to stop
civil unions will FACTUALLY not do the same thing repeating this lie just further shows how severely uneducated you are on this topic. This fact as already been proven there is no other contract equal to marriage. SOrry your post fails again. Keep posting this lie though maybe posters who arent honest, educated and objective will buy it, but the rest will just laugh.

also what will of the people? 1.) the will of the people dont matter to equal rights 2.) the will of the people are to support equal rights but again thats just a bonus since its meaningless on this issue.
I love the anger that is inspired in your posts by equal rights winning, it tells us all we need to know. Reminds me of all the people that had these same failed arguments against minority rights, women's rights and interracial marriage etc.

facts win again :)
 
AGENT J said:
translation: you still have no facts to support you, yes we know
1.) hey look right on time. When an individual cant defend thier failed arguments and many posters simply destroy them with facts the next path to take is failed insults. This is usually dont because there is no logical, honest, accurate or intellectual path to take.

Thanks for further proving our points lol

2.) see 1# the exposure and failures of your posts continue and its hilarious

3.) once again, laws, rights, judges, facts and court cases disagree with you.

remind us what you have on your side again? oh thats right just you saying "nu-huh" lol

extras
I can get married now, im straight, i want my the illegal discrimination against my fellow americans to stop
civil unions will FACTUALLY not do the same thing repeating this lie just further shows how severely uneducated you are on this topic. This fact as already been proven there is no other contract equal to marriage. SOrry your post fails again. Keep posting this lie though maybe posters who arent honest, educated and objective will buy it, but the rest will just laugh.

also what will of the people? 1.) the will of the people dont matter to equal rights 2.) the will of the people are to support equal rights but again thats just a bonus since its meaningless on this issue.
I love the anger that is inspired in your posts by equal rights winning, it tells us all we need to know. Reminds me of all the people that had these same failed arguments against minority rights, women's rights and interracial marriage etc.

facts win again :)
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What exactly do you think you have won? You have no idea what the Founders Created or what is even in the Constitution. In your world anything that goes against what you want to do is a violation of the equal protection laws. There is a reason that the SC hasn't overturned the definition of marriage and I am sure you cannot figure it out but I have told you.

I cannot tell you how angry I am, LOL, so keep believing that as I know that makes you feel great and after all isn't that what really matters, how you feel?

I do suggest you read the civil rights section of the Constitution and point to the section that references sexual orientation and marriage? I cannot seem to find it nor can the SC
 
Conservative said:
1.)What exactly do you think you have won?
2.)You have no idea what the Founders Created or what is even in the Constitution.
3.) In your world anything that goes against what you want to do is a violation of the equal protection laws.
4.) There is a reason that the SC hasn't overturned the definition of marriage
5.)and I am sure you cannot figure it out but I have told you.
6.)I cannot tell you how angry I am, LOL, so keep believing that as I know that makes you feel great
7.)and after all isn't that what really matters, how you feel?
8.)I do suggest you read the civil rights section of the Constitution and point to the section that references sexual orientation and marriage? I cannot seem to find it nor can the SC
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1.) me? nothing. This has nothing to do with me, seems you are even more confused then your posts show
2.) another meaningless opinion of yours that cant be backed up with any facts
3.) now this one is just a flat out lie, do you have any proof of this lie? please post it now. AGain this has nothing to do with me. Im going by facts, rights, laws, judges and court cases.
4.) this will be changing soon, sorry it upsets you lol
5.) yes you have told me your meaningless opinions that we all laugh at because you cant back them up with any facts
6.) feel great? no its just funny that equal rights makes you and a minority of others so angry. Its funny and very weird.
but it does feel great equal rights is winning.
7.) wrong again, how i "feel" is meaningless. 100% meaningless, just like how you feel is 100% meaningless. This is why your posts have failed for pages and pages. You think it matters how you feel, i know better and i just stick with facts, laws, rights, judges and court cases while you tell us all how you FEEL about them and you get angry over them nobody cares. I know nobody cares about my feelings? this is why i dont debate based on feelings like you have been doing lol
8.) again you keep pushing this failed strawman and nobody honest and educated buys it, please continue to make more stuff up that you think matters that doesnt, that too is also funny
again. I stick with facts, rights, laws, judges and court cases while all you have is . . . . ."feelings and opinions" lol
let us know when you have something more, we've been waiting for pages and so far youve presented nothing that supports your failed claims . .. . . notta . . . zilch . . . zero. :)
 
AGENT J said:
1.) me? nothing. This has nothing to do with me, seems you are even more confused then your posts show
2.) another meaningless opinion of yours that cant be backed up with any facts
3.) now this one is just a flat out lie, do you have any proof of this lie? please post it now. AGain this has nothing to do with me. Im going by facts, rights, laws, judges and court cases.
4.) this will be changing soon, sorry it upsets you lol
5.) yes you have told me your meaningless opinions that we all laugh at because you cant back them up with any facts
6.) feel great? no its just funny that equal rights makes you and a minority of others so angry. Its funny and very weird.
but it does feel great equal rights is winning.
7.) wrong again, how i "feel" is meaningless. 100% meaningless, just like how you feel is 100% meaningless. This is why your posts have failed for pages and pages. You think it matters how you feel, i know better and i just stick with facts, laws, rights, judges and court cases while you tell us all how you FEEL about them and you get angry over them nobody cares. I know nobody cares about my feelings? this is why i dont debate based on feelings like you have been doing lol
8.) again you keep pushing this failed strawman and nobody honest and educated buys it, please continue to make more stuff up that you think matters that doesnt, that too is also funny
again. I stick with facts, rights, laws, judges and court cases while all you have is . . . . ."feelings and opinions" lol
let us know when you have something more, we've been waiting for pages and so far youve presented nothing that supports your failed claims . .. . . notta . . . zilch . . . zero. :)
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It really is a waste of time even arguing this issue as nothing is going to change your mind or mine. Ultimately it will be decided by the people not the courts. I cannot find marriage in the Constitution nor apparently can the SC thus they haven't ruled on it. There are millions of Americans who AREN'T married that equal protection doesn't affect but they have the same rights as you or I to marry someone of the opposite sex. That seems to be the argument that is being ignored by you and others leaving your argument hinging on a personal choice issue. We shall see how that turns out for you and the gay rights advocates
 
Conservative said:
1.)It really is a waste of time even arguing this issue as nothing is going to change your mind or mine.
2.) Ultimately it will be decided by the people not the courts.
3.)I cannot find marriage in the Constitution nor apparently can the SC thus they haven't ruled on it.
4.) There are millions of Americans who AREN'T married that equal protection doesn't affect but they have the same rights as you or I to marry someone of the opposite sex.
5.) That seems to be the argument that is being ignored by you and others leaving your argument hinging on a personal choice issue.
6.)We shall see how that turns out for you and the gay rights advocates
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1.) 100% correct, im not going to ignore facts and accept your proven wrong opinion
2.) false, this is not a decision decided by people has history and current events prove
3.) not needed in this and once again this hilarious illogical inane straman fails and gets destroyed again lol
4.) meaningless to the topic, there were millions or americans that could drink out of fountains like whites could to at one time
5.) its ignored because it has ZERO merit in the discussion, it has no impact on the facts
6.) we are already seeing how it turns out for me and the majority of americans that support equal rights, equal rights is winning! :)
facts wins again


facts, laws, rights, judges, court cases > your feelings/opinions
 
Conservative said:
What you don't seem to understand is that the SC has had numerous opportunities to rule on the definition of marriage and has yet to do so. Do you have any idea why? The SC has always ruled on the site of states' rights and although you seem to believe it is an equal protection issue the SC hasn't ruled on that as it relates to state laws. If it were an equal protection issue the SC would have ruled a long time ago. That indicates to me that the SC doesn't buy your argument about sexual orientation being a civil right and that states have the right to define marriage which most have done. Activist justices have overturned the votes of the people and overstepped their power by tying marriage to the EP section and yet the SC hasn't ruled on that, why?
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I do not think you are quite aware of in terms of what the Supreme Court has rules, nor the implications. You also do not understand that the states do not have the right to trump the 14th amendment, an area that the supreme court has not even looked at. I would suggest doing some reading, starting with the Windsor ruling, then read the constitution.
 
Conservative said:
I could respond to the line items in your post and provide you with the answers you are looking for but then that would prevent you from taking a civics and history course to learn about our Founders, the Constitution, and the way out govt. runs.

what I really am scared of is the ignorance of far too many and the only solution to ignorance is education. I can provide you the source of some good schools to help you

I am sure that everyday you can find something that interferes with your individual rights but getting married isn't one of them. You can marry anyone of the opposite sex you want or will have you just like me. That is equal protection as indicated by Loving v. Va. but no, people like you just want attention, are malcontents and want the title of married when civil unions will do the same thing or domestic Partnerships. I don't have any respect for people using equal protection as justification for redefining marriage against the will of the people
Click to expand...

Loving is aplicable as one of the cases that states that marriage is a right, making is particularly bound by the 14th amendment. You might want to read that case too. I suggest education.
 
Conservative said:
What exactly do you think you have won? You have no idea what the Founders Created or what is even in the Constitution. In your world anything that goes against what you want to do is a violation of the equal protection laws. There is a reason that the SC hasn't overturned the definition of marriage and I am sure you cannot figure it out but I have told you.

I cannot tell you how angry I am, LOL, so keep believing that as I know that makes you feel great and after all isn't that what really matters, how you feel?

I do suggest you read the civil rights section of the Constitution and point to the section that references sexual orientation and marriage? I cannot seem to find it nor can the SC
Click to expand...

Posted this once for you already...

  • Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note the underlined parts. You could just read the constitution and learn you are wrong...
 
Conservative said:
It really is a waste of time even arguing this issue as nothing is going to change your mind or mine. Ultimately it will be decided by the people not the courts. I cannot find marriage in the Constitution nor apparently can the SC thus they haven't ruled on it. There are millions of Americans who AREN'T married that equal protection doesn't affect but they have the same rights as you or I to marry someone of the opposite sex. That seems to be the argument that is being ignored by you and others leaving your argument hinging on a personal choice issue. We shall see how that turns out for you and the gay rights advocates
Click to expand...

The Supreme Court has ruled on mariage multiple times. You even cited Loving, which is one example. This is really basic stuff.
 
Cardinal said:
Correct, actually:



But not necessarily:



It's far from the first article I've seen that suggests that the potential for racism, or any other form of us vs. them mentality, is actually hardwired into our brains, but those studies consistently show that those aren't our strongest instincts, and can in fact even be "turned off."



Are we hardwired to be racist? | Minnesota Public Radio News

So the bad news is that with regards to jingoism, racism, homophobia, etc., we're all sort of like alcoholics in that there is no cure, per se. The good news is that with the right upbringing, none of us have to actually be bigots at all.
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I meant the story line coming from the gay community will be an endless one of being "oppressed". It will never end.
 
the WHOLE speech



a little paraphrasing


"We are here to acknowledge the simple fact that the world would be a whole lot better if we just made an effort to be less horrible to each other. If we took just 5 minutes to recognize each other's beauty instead of attacking each other for our differences, and thats not hard its really an easier and better way to live and ultimately it saves lives. "

"love, the beauty of it, the joy of it and yes even the pain of it is the most incredible gift to experience as a human being. And we deserve to experience love fully, equally and fully without shame and without compromise"
 
Conservative said:
Seems that the gay rights advocates aren't so sure as every gay thread gets almost maximum participation.
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It gets a lot of participation because it's a lot of fun demonstrating the ignorance of the anti-gay and anti-SSM crowd. It's quite easy, too.

Your opinion noted as is mine. We shall see one of these days. The argument just goes to show how historically challenged these advocates are when it comes to the Constitution and what is in it. Equal protection applies to the Constitution and what is in it, not what isn't/
Click to expand...

Actually, it shows how historically challenged those who oppose the advocates are on the Constitution and how it's been used throughout history.
 
zimmer said:
I meant the story line coming from the gay community will be an endless one of being "oppressed". It will never end.
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Right. Because, as my article and numerous other studies on racism suggest, the capacity for oppressing will always exist.
 
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