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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.

I was thinking the same thing.

If every man and woman had a child, the world would get over populated pretty quickly.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Population control is not really a built-in feature of human evolution, or any species really. Population control usually comes in the form of an externality like the tragedy of the commons.

In the womb we are all female by default until complex genetic-mediated hormonal processes make us switch from female to male. The best explanation I have read so far for homosexuality is that with each successive male pregnancy, a woman may develop antibodies to the newly forming androgens which help shape male neurology. It's already known that a disproportionate number of gay men have more male siblings.

In more ancient terms, it would mean that such a child would be less likely to reproduce as an adult, thus being less weighed down by the responsibility of raising a child and more able to offer auxiliary support to their family / community. For this reason, we cannot assume that the process is a result of a defect. It probably has a very useful purpose. Gay men have differing abilities than straight men, statistically. Their linguistic and spatial orientation skills are usually superior.

Unfortunately, this theory doesn't fit 100% because our knowledge of the ancient world also tells us that sexuality was a lot more fluid. Men often had sexual encounters yet still formed pair-bonds with women for reproduction. In ancient Greece it was common for an older man to school a younger man in sexuality (the ancient form of pederasty), while also teaching him to honor the traditional obligation of pro-creation.

At this point I feel that 'gay' is an identity that becomes hardwired with time, combined with a predisposition, but is not necessarily a biological trait... which is why, so far, a gene for it has not been found. I think that, without being raised in an environment with so much identity politics, humans are just sexual opportunists.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Probably a number closer to suicide rates of heterosexuals

Not even close. Suicide rate for homosexuals is 2-4 times that of heterosexuals. Reasons cited for suicidality amongst homosexuals, not in any particular order:

1) Non-acceptance from family members.
2) Being bullied or harassed.
3) Living in a heterocentric culture.
4) Being a minority.
5) Homophobia.
6) Denial of services that heterosexuals receive such as marriage.

Now, do you feel silly.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Ok let's take bestiality out of it, how about your sister or brother?

Any slippery slope argument will work, eh?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No, I am showing that gay rights supporters are hypocrites and they are

Actually, you're not. You are showing that you don't understand the issue and prefer to argue from a position of logical fallacies.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Yet you waste your time responding to me.

Actually, I don't at all. You never seem to remember that I don't respond to you for YOU, I respond to you for ME.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I thought it was obvious that you waste my time making me read the trash you folks post. It was assumed.

You do realize that how you spend your time is irrelevant to me. But it is good to know that we have control over you, making you read what we write. How does it feel to be controlled by anonymous people on the internet, Tigger?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Do you have a link to a free copy of the complete work, instead of just the summery?

Though poorly formatted, I believe this is the only copy of the complete work, online:

hooker.htm
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Indeed.

In this case, there's a very good reason why they are, have always been, and will always be, a small minority.

From an evolutionary standpoint, their aberration is a dead end—something that the process of natural selection tries to weed out for the betterment of the species as a whole.

More ignorance from the king of ignorance on this topic, Bob Blaylock. The percentage of homosexuals in the population has been fairly static... around 4% for all of recorded history. So, as usual on this topic, Bob, you have no clue as to what you are talking about.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

A factor but NOT a requirement.

Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.

Yet, since we know that homosexuals are often the result of heterosexual matings, and heterosexuals are often the result of homosexual matings, the genetics of passing down these traits does not apply in the way that you think.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Well, you're doing a lot of defending here and attempting to throw me under the bus so I can only assume you're extremely opposed to my logical position and take a more emotional approach to this situation as every progressive does.

We haven't seen a logical position from you. Just some anti-progressive rantings. Nothing more.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I know I'm right when progressives start posting pictures in frustration...

Actually, this usually means that you have been repeating the same old stupid comments and responding to them with anything other than pictures seems pointless.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.

That's a misnomer. Never in our anthropological record has there been anywhere near an environmental pressure extreme enough to warrant population control, EVER. However, I will say that Bob is wrong about homosexual genetic traits. Homosexuality is most certainly a product of heterosexual parents, where at least one parent has the recessive gene, and the gene becomes dominant on the allele of it's offspring. This is assuming of course that homosexuality is genetic, which, for the record I do not, or if it does have biological causation then it most assuredly is of something in the developmental process where a hormone is too much, or too little. Anyone's guess..


Just clearing things up, enjoy the rest of your gay thread. ;)


Tim-
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Population control is not really a built-in feature of human evolution, or any species really. Population control usually comes in the form of an externality like the tragedy of the commons.

In the womb we are all female by default until complex genetic-mediated hormonal processes make us switch from female to male. The best explanation I have read so far for homosexuality is that with each successive male pregnancy, a woman may develop antibodies to the newly forming androgens which help shape male neurology. It's already known that a disproportionate number of gay men have more male siblings.

In more ancient terms, it would mean that such a child would be less likely to reproduce as an adult, thus being less weighed down by the responsibility of raising a child and more able to offer auxiliary support to their family / community. For this reason, we cannot assume that the process is a result of a defect. It probably has a very useful purpose. Gay men have differing abilities than straight men, statistically. Their linguistic and spatial orientation skills are usually superior.

Unfortunately, this theory doesn't fit 100% because our knowledge of the ancient world also tells us that sexuality was a lot more fluid. Men often had sexual encounters yet still formed pair-bonds with women for reproduction. In ancient Greece it was common for an older man to school a younger man in sexuality (the ancient form of pederasty), while also teaching him to honor the traditional obligation of pro-creation.

At this point I feel that 'gay' is an identity that becomes hardwired with time, combined with a predisposition, but is not necessarily a biological trait... which is why, so far, a gene for it has not been found. I think that, without being raised in an environment with so much identity politics, humans are just sexual opportunists.


Yeah see, problem with you gay uncle theory or the gay brothers theory is that it doesn't seem consistent, although it does make for good headlines. IN terms of the gay uncle, the major glaring, (Well glaring if you're not looking at it with rose colored glasses on) problem with that theory is that gay men still have about as much intrinsic desire to procreate as we hetero folks. How do you explain that Northern Light? Not to mention how does a gay female hold up to that theory? Probably not very well, thus both "theories" have been mostly abandoned.


Again, sorry to ruin this lovely gay thread, but I am compelled to set the record straight. ;)


Tim-
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Any slippery slope argument will work, eh?

Your support for gay and lesbian activity is your choice but it opens up other areas that simply show the hypocrisy of others and that is my point. where does it stop? Why not a brother, sister, uncle, aunt, grandmother, grandfather? A very small minority of this country is gay and yet it is a very vocal minority and the question is why? You don't like the laws, change them, I believe 12 states have and if the others do it, then so be it, maybe the celebration of a non normal activity will get less public attention. I do not support gay marriage because I believe in traditional marriage as a union between a man and a woman. That is my belief, yours is different. I have no problem with a civil union but why is the title marriage so important you same sex couples?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Pretty much every thread on this subject can be summed up by:

I was taught something is bad.

I lack the intelligence necessary to question what I was taught.

Since I was taught it is bad, it must be bad and so all I can muster are the same circular arguments as others that take the form of an appeal to authority.

If the appeal to authority doesn't work, I will not hesitate to resort to some particularly stupid slippery slope arguments.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

No, we are not. Bestiality is animal rape, as legally animals can not give consent, nor can kids. Consensual marriage between adults is nothing like rape. If you don't like the law, change it.

So are you cool with an 18 year old marrying his 23 year old brother? I ask that, not because I oppose same sex marriage (I don't). I just think you have to be honest that some lines are ok to draw. When you say things like, "you're a bigot if you believe in restricting rights for others that you enjoy" that, basically, puts you in the position of having to agree with everything anyone else wants to engage in. I don't oppose SSM. I do oppose polygamy and incestuous marriages even if the parties involved are consenting adults.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Not even close. Suicide rate for homosexuals is 2-4 times that of heterosexuals. Reasons cited for suicidality amongst homosexuals, not in any particular order:

1) Non-acceptance from family members.
2) Being bullied or harassed.
3) Living in a heterocentric culture.
4) Being a minority.
5) Homophobia.
6) Denial of services that heterosexuals receive such as marriage.

Now, do you feel silly.

On the top of the list

.5) Weakness
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I think you are either born gay or straight, but then I think about the fact that the type of woman that excites me was formed by my environment and not by nature, so that leaves a doubt in my mind.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Though poorly formatted, I believe this is the only copy of the complete work, online:

hooker.htm

Ok, first problem in that study. Sampling.

Was not a random, blind sampling on the part of homosexuals. All participants were part of an organization that "which has as its stated purpose the development of a homosexual ethic in order to better integrate the homosexual into society." So they were part of an organization whose purpose was to control behavior. Further, certain segments of society were excluded. Also, because it was from an organization that practiced and taught control of behavior, it cannot be presumed, as the author seems to have done, that they represent natural occurring behaviors for the qualifying group.

The heterosexual sampling was also from organizations, but since they are undisclosed, we have no data on what they focused upon nor were they from the same organization as the homosexuals.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Not even close. Suicide rate for homosexuals is 2-4 times that of heterosexuals. Reasons cited for suicidality amongst homosexuals, not in any particular order:

1) Non-acceptance from family members.
2) Being bullied or harassed.
3) Living in a heterocentric culture.
4) Being a minority.
5) Homophobia.
6) Denial of services that heterosexuals receive such as marriage.

Now, do you feel silly.

Well then, if left alone, the problem takes care of itself.

Now, what does all this have to do with a silly B actress who decides to do her big announcement for publicity?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

I fully understand that. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not homosexuality is a mental disorder.

All the conditions I mentioned involve sexual attraction to other than sexually developed members of the opposite sex. However, the mental health community treats homosexuality different from every other such case. It is the only example of such attraction that is considered normal and not deviant, a mental illness.

Your argument made it sound like the ability to consent was the only factor that should be considered when classifying such instances as normal or deviant. Ability to consent has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It is considered normal because people can be happy and functional even if they are gay. That is the evidence which led to homosexuality being removed as a mental illness. For something to be considered a mental illness it needs to cause distress and dysfunction and homosexuality does not.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

It is considered normal because people can be happy and functional even if they are gay. That is the evidence which led to homosexuality being removed as a mental illness. For something to be considered a mental illness it needs to cause distress and dysfunction and homosexuality does not.

So then why is their suicide rate higher?
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

On the top of the list

.5) Weakness

Which, as the good Cap'n left out, is the most widely (although psychologists like to place a number of associated disorders along with them) associated reason for suicide. It's not just gays that kills themselves, it's gays, and heteros, and fat people and ugly people, good looking people, blah blah blah people who have OTHER issues not related to their outer or inner selves.

Tim-
 
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