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Thread: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    In a year or two when you find yourself in a real, live civics class at school, have the teacher explain to you the concept of "tyranny of the majority", k?

    Failing that, at least show you have even the most rudimentary understanding of the separation of powers.
    Suggest you explain that to the Founders and creators of the Constitution. How is a Constitutional Amendment ratified? At 67 years of age I assure you that I have a better grasp of history and civics than you will ever have.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This country was created based upon a Constitution that provides provisions for ratification of a amendments. National popular vote was never the tool to ratify our Constitution. Why is it you continue to ignore the votes of the people and instead always point to polls? The People of California overwhelming rejected same sex marriage until overturned by the courts. The people of North Carolina told the pollsters one thing and voted the opposite. You just don't get it but will when the Constitutional Amendment is ratififed
    a. State constitutions do not trump the Federal Constitution, therefore...
    b. state laws and amendments, even those voted in on a majority, can be ruled unconstitutional.
    c. If confused about b., see a.
    d. Regarding a Federal Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, you are either dreaming or a time traveler from circa fifteen years ago. Welcome to 2014. Some things have changed.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 02-19-14 at 12:37 PM.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I assure you that I have a better grasp of history and civics than you will ever have.
    This claim is dubious, especially as you were unaware of the number of votes required to amend the constitution, and unaware of the number of states required in a constitutional convention (which you did not seem to be aware has never happened).

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    a. State constitutions do not trump the Federal Constitution, therefore...
    b. state laws and amendments, even those voted in on a majority, can be ruled unconstitutional.
    c. If confused about b., see a.
    d. Regarding a Federal Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman, you are either dreaming or a time traveler from circa fifteen years ago. Welcome to 2014. Some things have changed.
    Yes, and I have acknowledged that, apparently you don't understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified. Let me explain that it isn't done by poll numbers or by national popular vote.

    Name for me any state where the poll numbers match the vote when put on the ballot? Courts have overruled state constitutional amendments but the Supreme Court has never heard a case on the definition of marriage. That is going to happen and if it goes against the will of the people you are going to see a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the votes of the state electorate. I suggest a civics course for you but being in LA you probably wouldn't get the true American version

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, and I have acknowledged that, apparently you don't understand how a Constitutional Amendment is ratified. Let me explain that it isn't done by poll numbers or by national popular vote.

    Name for me any state where the poll numbers match the vote when put on the ballot? Courts have overruled state constitutional amendments but the Supreme Court has never heard a case on the definition of marriage. That is going to happen and if it goes against the will of the people you are going to see a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the votes of the state electorate. I suggest a civics course for you but being in LA you probably wouldn't get the true American version
    I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to believe that amendment is going to happen before the next coming coming of Haley's Comet. Head shaking stuff.

    I just think it's funny that you happily provided a source on the states that don't approve of gay marriage, then crumpled it up and threw it out the instant you learned that they didn't add up to the number you needed.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to believe that amendment is going to happen before the next coming coming of Haley's Comet. Head shaking stuff.

    I just think it's funny that you happily provided a source on the states that don't approve of gay marriage, then crumpled it up and threw it out the instant you learned that they didn't add up to the number you needed.
    Hey, keep pushing the issue and see what happens. What was the vote on Prop 8 in California vs the polling data? You put so much faith in polls and ignore the votes of people by secret ballot.

    It will be up to the people of the states to ratify a Constitutional Amendment that cannot be overruled by the Courts you hold so dearly and you aren't going to like the outcome. I am waiting for you to post polling data vs. election results on same sex marriage issues. There is the true picture of what the people think, not what they tell pollsters

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Hey, keep pushing the issue and see what happens. What was the vote on Prop 8 in California vs the polling data? You put so much faith in polls and ignore the votes of people by secret ballot.

    It will be up to the people of the states to ratify a Constitutional Amendment that cannot be overruled by the Courts you hold so dearly and you aren't going to like the outcome. I am waiting for you to post polling data vs. election results on same sex marriage issues. There is the true picture of what the people think, not what they tell pollsters
    As I've said before, it will be (and has been) a mixture of majority vote and court rulings. It's been a tandem effort. That's why your cause is hopeless: if you win on one, you'll just get trumped by the other.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No one ever said this. It is an absurd statement.



    You continue to not understand the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. We know that not all male homosexuals practice anal sex. That's one way your argument is sunk. We also know that not every instance of anal sex causes any distress or dysfunction. That's way number two your argument fails. And way number three... and this is key and shows that you don't understand how mental health diagnoses work, the distress has to be psychological. This is the cornerstone of why Hooker's study proved that homosexuality is not a mental disorder; homosexuality in and of itself causes no distress or dysfunction. And, like CT, I also am a mental health professional, using the DSM daily. You are WAY out of your league on this issue.
    You defend an obviously biased and rigged study.

    Further, the study you promote concludes

    "The role of particular forms of sexual desire and expression in personality structure and development may be less important than has frequently been assumed. Even if one assumes that homosexuality represents a severe form of maladjustment to society in the sexual sector of behavior, this does not necessarily mean that the homosexual must be severely maladjusted in other sectors of his behavior. Or, if one assumes that homosexuality is a form of severe maladjustment interna11y, it may be that the disturbance is limited to the sexual sector alone."

    Yes, I do understand the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. Had you used one of the studies that use animal behavior as a basis to prove the normality of homosexuality, that would of been the basis of my arguments against such studies.

    As to mental health "professionals", thank you for providing evidence that you do not in anyway understand real science.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    As I've said before, it will be (and has been) a mixture of majority vote and court rulings. It's been a tandem effort. That's why your cause is hopeless: if you win on one, you'll just get trumped by the other.
    Wrong, the majority in California voted for Prop 8, 52%, and the courts overturned that vote. The courts have no say on a Federal Constitutional Amendment ratified by the states

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wrong, the majority in California voted for Prop 8, 52%, and the courts overturned that vote. The courts have no say on a Federal Constitutional Amendment ratified by the states
    This post doesn't make any sense.

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