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Thread: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Homosexuality isn't necessarily a "deleterious trait." I can think of a perfectly good evolutionary reason for homosexuality to exist. Population control.
    You have to admit that that is quite a stretch you're making, there.

    Natural selection doesn't deal with “population control”. It's about survival of the fittest. Those who have the best genetic traits to survive and succeed are the ones who get to pass those traits on to future generations, insuring that the future generations will tend to predominantly possess the best traits that allowed their ancestors to survive and succeed. From this point of view, homosexuality is not a trait of the fittest. It's a trait that very specifically tends to prevent those who have it from passing their genetics on to future generations. Therefore, it is a trait that is, and always will be, uncommon, found in only a small minority of any given population.

    And in too small a minority to have any significant effect toward “population control”.
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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    No, genius, because they're not what the thread is about. I'm against bullying of all sorts. You're the one trying to change the subject.

    Also, there's not people trying to prevent fat people from getting married, or trying to keep it legal to fire someone for being too smart. Sorry, but in some ways gay people do have it worse.



    Matthew Shepard.

    Matthew Shepard? that was what 15 years ago - not to mention there is evidence to suggest what happened to him had NOTHING to do with the fact he was gay but got involved in a drug deal gone wrong.

    Yeah and how manny kids have killed themselves since then because they were teased for being "geeks", "fat", "ugly", "stupid" or even too smart or short just to name a few reasons..

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Koros View Post
    Your argument is fundamentally flawed. In your Peppered Moth example, it was the ones who did not adapt to the changed environment which died out, thus ensuring that those who DID mutate passed on the mutation to their children. That is Genetics 101.

    However, in the case of homosexuality, the same does not apply. Given that every single homosexual on the planet was born from a heterosexual union, their sexual orientation was passed to them (again, assuming a genetic cause for homosexuality) predominantly from those who do not share their sexual orientation. If anything, and again this all assumes a genetic cause for homosexuality, you are looking at a recessive trait for homosexuality. Since recessive traits can be passed from generation to generation without asserting themselves, and since sexual orientation is not a factor which contributes to longevity as an individual or a person's ability (ability, mind you, not desire) to reproduce, your argument fails.
    Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

    Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Fair enough, you know more about that **** than I do. I was more speaking of why the trait may have existed in the first place. It's a theory, and not one I intend to spend a lot of time arguing for.
    The hard core right wingers use that argument a lot, which is funny because many of them don't even accept evolution. At any rate since in most cultures, and probably in prehistoric hunter / gather cultures as well, gays and lesbians throughout most of human history married and or mated with the opposite sex because of cultural / social pressures in their group, and thus produced offspring. Therefore if there is a genetic basis for homosexuality, there is nothing that would have kept it from being passed from generation to generation in terms of evolution. In fact, one could argue that now that homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted, and thus homosexuals have far less society pressure to marry someone of the opposite sex, if there is a genetic basis to homosexuality, there may well be less gays and lesbians in future generations.
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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Koros View Post
    And you know this for a fact, how? Were you in the room with them? Or, as I suspect, is this just your own personal opinion masquerading as fact?
    Well, I suppose it is possibly that she is totally economically incompetent and stupid and this just dumb good luck on her part. Is that your point?

    My point is 1.) how is this newsworthy and 2.) this did not take courage on her part as she faced no risks, only potential benefits - and that is what happened. She is an actor who made front page in a way acceptable and beneficial to her career.

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

    Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.
    I am pretty sure that back when being gay would get you death by stoning, homosexuals had little trouble marrying the opposite sex and mating even though they were not sexually attracted to them.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Sexual orientation absolutely is a factor when it comes to reproduction.

    Homosexuals can reproduce, but in order to do so, they have to go against their nature, and participate in heterosexual matings. This certainly makes them significantly less likely to reproduce, and to pass their traits on to future generations, than heterosexuals who, can reproduce without taking extraordinary means to violate their nature.
    Yes, that is true that homosexuals do not reproduce at nearly the rate of heterosexuals. But, that is immaterial, as it completely ignores the fact that A) there is not enough evidence yet to conclude that homosexuality is genetic and B) even if it were, that it is a dominant trait and not recessive.

    But, assuming it IS genetic, there is more evidence for the recessive trait theory than the dominant trait theory. Since every homosexual in the world (past, present, and future) is the result of a heterosexual mating, the trait is OBVIOUSLY passed on from parents who (barring the small number of gay parents) do not share that trait as dominant...thus RECESSIVE. And recessive traits can go from generation to generation without asserting themselves. Things like blond hair, blue eyes, and albinism (if I remember correctly on that last one) are all RECESSIVE traits, yet albinos still exist and are born of non-albino parents...and will continue to exist.
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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Matthew Shepard? that was what 15 years ago - not to mention there is evidence to suggest what happened to him had NOTHING to do with the fact he was gay but got involved in a drug deal gone wrong.
    The evidence is rather flimsy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yeah and how manny kids have killed themselves since then because they were teased for being "geeks", "fat", "ugly", "stupid" or even too smart or short just to name a few reasons..
    Which is tragic. And also completely unrelated to the issue at hand here.
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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Well, I suppose it is possibly that she is totally economically incompetent and stupid and this just dumb good luck on her part. Is that your point?

    My point is 1.) how is this newsworthy and 2.) this did not take courage on her part as she faced no risks, only potential benefits - and that is what happened. She is an actor who made front page in a way acceptable and beneficial to her career.
    I agree that it isn't newsworthy beyond, maybe, a blurb somewhere. "And in other news, Ellen Page comes out of the closet...now, to sports!" That I can understand. This front page, tear-filled interview? Yeah, I don't get it either.
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    re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    These comparisons you are making are absolutely ridiculous. Are fat peopled prevented in most states from marrying each other? Was it ever a felony to be fat? Hell fat people are in the majority anymore. Moreover, someone that is obese can lose weight, someone that is gay cannot change their sexual preference.

    People are defined by who they are and what they do. For example, I am married, white, straight, a father, an avid runner / cyclist, form the South originally and so on. Its quite easy to state I am these things because by and large society has been pretty easy on white straight guys. That is not all that defines me, but it is part of what does. Similarly, someone that is gay might be an avid runner, they may be from the South, in some cases they may be a father, they might be white, in a few states they might be married, but they are also gay and there is nothing wrong with that, it is just another aspect of their lives that defines them. Telling their friends and family that they are gay does not mean they are trying to be divisive, but rather that they are just revealing something about themselves. There is nothing liberal about that, and only a bigot would see anything wrong with that.

    Finally, it does take some courage on their part to come out because unfortunately there are still a lot of religious and social conservatives that are not too keen on people being gay.
    No one is preventing anyone from marrying anyone..... State contract law has no bias. What gays want "oddly enough" is de facto joint contractual and a financial affairs which is granted when a straight couple gets hitched.

    ^ I find that to be total bull**** considering most straight couples would probably feel uncomfortable with those precedences hence a prenub.

    The reality is that gays actually believe if the state enforces gay marriage that all of a sudden the residents of that state by de facto are forced to change their moral or ethics on the issue all because the state "says so" like we live in the North Korea and whatever the "dear leader" says goes - which is exactly what progressives want.

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