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Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
I can't imagine the bubble you must be living in to believe that amendment is going to happen before the next coming coming of Haley's Comet. Head shaking stuff.

I just think it's funny that you happily provided a source on the states that don't approve of gay marriage, then crumpled it up and threw it out the instant you learned that they didn't add up to the number you needed.
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Hey, keep pushing the issue and see what happens. What was the vote on Prop 8 in California vs the polling data? You put so much faith in polls and ignore the votes of people by secret ballot.

It will be up to the people of the states to ratify a Constitutional Amendment that cannot be overruled by the Courts you hold so dearly and you aren't going to like the outcome. I am waiting for you to post polling data vs. election results on same sex marriage issues. There is the true picture of what the people think, not what they tell pollsters
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Hey, keep pushing the issue and see what happens. What was the vote on Prop 8 in California vs the polling data? You put so much faith in polls and ignore the votes of people by secret ballot.

It will be up to the people of the states to ratify a Constitutional Amendment that cannot be overruled by the Courts you hold so dearly and you aren't going to like the outcome. I am waiting for you to post polling data vs. election results on same sex marriage issues. There is the true picture of what the people think, not what they tell pollsters
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As I've said before, it will be (and has been) a mixture of majority vote and court rulings. It's been a tandem effort. That's why your cause is hopeless: if you win on one, you'll just get trumped by the other.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

CaptainCourtesy said:
No one ever said this. It is an absurd statement.



You continue to not understand the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. We know that not all male homosexuals practice anal sex. That's one way your argument is sunk. We also know that not every instance of anal sex causes any distress or dysfunction. That's way number two your argument fails. And way number three... and this is key and shows that you don't understand how mental health diagnoses work, the distress has to be psychological. This is the cornerstone of why Hooker's study proved that homosexuality is not a mental disorder; homosexuality in and of itself causes no distress or dysfunction. And, like CT, I also am a mental health professional, using the DSM daily. You are WAY out of your league on this issue.
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You defend an obviously biased and rigged study.

Further, the study you promote concludes

"The role of particular forms of sexual desire and expression in personality structure and development may be less important than has frequently been assumed. Even if one assumes that homosexuality represents a severe form of maladjustment to society in the sexual sector of behavior, this does not necessarily mean that the homosexual must be severely maladjusted in other sectors of his behavior. Or, if one assumes that homosexuality is a form of severe maladjustment interna11y, it may be that the disturbance is limited to the sexual sector alone."

Yes, I do understand the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. Had you used one of the studies that use animal behavior as a basis to prove the normality of homosexuality, that would of been the basis of my arguments against such studies.

As to mental health "professionals", thank you for providing evidence that you do not in anyway understand real science.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
As I've said before, it will be (and has been) a mixture of majority vote and court rulings. It's been a tandem effort. That's why your cause is hopeless: if you win on one, you'll just get trumped by the other.
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Wrong, the majority in California voted for Prop 8, 52%, and the courts overturned that vote. The courts have no say on a Federal Constitutional Amendment ratified by the states
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Wrong, the majority in California voted for Prop 8, 52%, and the courts overturned that vote. The courts have no say on a Federal Constitutional Amendment ratified by the states
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This post doesn't make any sense.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
This post doesn't make any sense.
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That is because you don't understand the difference between a State Constitutional Amendment and a Federal Amendment nor how they are ratified. You apparently don't understand what Prop 8 was either. Such passion you have for this social issue, You really ought to take a civics class.

Courts overruled the State Constitutional Amendment that passed in California with 52% of the vote. Courts cannot overrule a Federal Constitutional Amendment. Federal Constitutional Amendments are ratified by the states not popular vote in the nation. If the States ratify a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution there is nothing the courts can do about it. You lose.

My post makes perfect sense to anyone who understands civics, polling, and election results.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

CaptainCourtesy said:
You STILL don't get the point of the study. There is no bias. The selectivity of the sample was necessary to eliminate bias.



Since the control groups were appropriate for the study and the bias of the researcher... if there was any, is not evidenced in the results, I have no issue with the study at all. The study is methodologically sound. All of your objections are irrelevant as the sampling process is key to prevent bias in the results.
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The group selected was selected to give the results achieved. It was rigged.

Her homosexual control group were already undergoing treatment for homosexual tendencies, given, unprofessional treatment but treatment none the less. That group should of been disqualified when she disqualified those in mental institutions. Therefore, she could not collect base data from such a group. She would need untreated homosexuals to establish base line data and to make conclusions. Basically, she proved that that particular groups treatment was successful, if anything.

No where in science will altered specimens be considered for base line data. Her "specimens" had already been potentially altered, corrupting the study and hence corrupting any results from it.

Had a different group been used, I would gladly and easily accept the conclusions. But whether a study if for my point of view or against it, it must meet standards to ensure there was no bias or corruption of the study. Her study used a corrupted control group and was administered by a biased researcher and appears to have been set up to give exactly the results that it did. Under such conditions, the conclusion cannot be accepted as uncorrupted or accurate.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
That is because you don't understand the difference between a State Constitutional Amendment and a Federal Amendment nor how they are ratified. You apparently don't understand what Prop 8 was either. Such passion you have for this social issue, You really ought to take a civics class.

Courts overruled the State Constitutional Amendment that passed in California with 52% of the vote. Courts cannot overrule a Federal Constitutional Amendment. Federal Constitutional Amendments are ratified by the states not popular vote in the nation. If the States ratify a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution there is nothing the courts can do about it. You lose.

My post makes perfect sense to anyone who understands civics, polling, and election results.
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Hahaha this is *never* going to happen. Gay rights opponents are being soundly defeated at the ballot, the courts, and legislature. Even in GW's reign they couldn't pass a federal ban. Within 18 months it will be *legal* federally. Give it up
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

opendebate said:
My boyfriend and I just watched this and we both got a little soppy eyed.
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I literally shed tears when Boltie/Libby got killed.

boltie.jpg
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
Don't get too excited. I'm getting really crap tequila, because I'm a sore loser like that.
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Like that will make any difference. :mrgreen:
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

CriticalThought said:
Did you not declare that deformities are not normal? And you care so much about what is and is not classified as "normal". Obviously you don't like things that are not normal. You don't like homosexuality and you consider that not normal. So it would seem you do not like people who have deformities either because you don't consider them normal.
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No, it's long past in the thread now, but it's an inane tactic to go back and reverse engineer what I said. Again, and as you know but are now playing games with, my response used deformities in a specific context as a response to a rather silly specific point you were trying to make.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

chromium said:
Hahaha this is *never* going to happen. Gay rights opponents are being soundly defeated at the ballot, the courts, and legislature. Even in GW's reign they couldn't pass a federal ban. Within 18 months it will be *legal* federally. Give it up
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Your opinion noted but your opinion conflicts with the vote. In one of the most liberal states in the nation, California, 52% of the people voted against SSM and that was overturned by an activist court. People vote different that the polls show so if what you say is true, it isn't reflected in the majority of the states or even some so called SSM bastions.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

chromium said:
Hahaha this is *never* going to happen. Gay rights opponents are being soundly defeated at the ballot, the courts, and legislature. Even in GW's reign they couldn't pass a federal ban. Within 18 months it will be *legal* federally. Give it up
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Yeah, but like, North Carolina.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
That is because you don't understand the difference between a State Constitutional Amendment and a Federal Amendment nor how they are ratified. You apparently don't understand what Prop 8 was either. Such passion you have for this social issue, You really ought to take a civics class.

Courts overruled the State Constitutional Amendment that passed in California with 52% of the vote. Courts cannot overrule a Federal Constitutional Amendment. Federal Constitutional Amendments are ratified by the states not popular vote in the nation. If the States ratify a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution there is nothing the courts can do about it. You lose.

My post makes perfect sense to anyone who understands civics, polling, and election results.
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I foresee the next five years being a very confusing time for you.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
I foresee the next five years being a very confusing time for you.
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Since you don't have a lot of credibility I don't take what you foresee as of much of a concern.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted but your opinion conflicts with the vote. In one of the most liberal states in the nation, California, 52% of the people voted against SSM and that was overturned by an activist court. People vote different that the polls show so if what you say is true, it isn't reflected in the majority of the states or even some so called SSM bastions.
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Dude that was back in *2008* and CA is hardly liberal by any definition. No legal drugs? No assisted suicide? A republican actor governor? No gay rights until 2013?? That is hardly a record to hang one's hat on.

But you can throw around "activist court" until the cows come home, if a vote were held in CA today, gay marriage would pass *easily* At the very least admit the momentum is clearly headed in one direction. 4/5 of under 30 year olds support gay rights, so i'm rather baffled at how you expect this to be reversed by any means, much less a federal amendment. The same prejudiced old farts who couldn't accomplish that a decade ago are dying off, and their bigotry with them.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Cardinal said:
Yeah, but like, North Carolina.
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I'm glad you mentioned this, because i very nearly forgot the north carolina vote, that's how long ago it was.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

chromium said:
Dude that was back in *2008* and CA is hardly liberal by any definition. No legal drugs? No assisted suicide? A republican actor governor? No gay rights until 2013?? That is hardly a record to hang one's hat on.

But you can throw around "activist court" until the cows come home, if a vote were held in CA today, gay marriage would pass *easily* At the very least admit the momentum is clearly headed in one direction. 4/5 of under 30 year olds support gay rights, so i'm rather baffled at how you expect this to be reversed by any means, much less a federal amendment. The same prejudiced old farts who couldn't accomplish that a decade ago are dying off, and their bigotry with them.
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Hey, dude, California is bankrupt and that makes it liberal. You are such an expert on what everyone else would do so why bother even discussing it here. You believe you are going to win, sit back and watch it happen. With all the problems facing this country there is no question that SSM is Number One
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

chromium said:
I'm glad you mentioned this, because i very nearly forgot the north carolina vote, that's how long ago it was.
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61% of the people in N.C. voted against SSM, the polls were a lot closer than that
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

DVSentinel said:
And everyone in existence has been diagnosed and none lead happy lives? Ok, got you.



No. You said:



I gave you an example of a behavior common to male homosexuals that causes "distress and dysfunction". You are just trying to deflect from the fact that it does in fact cause "distress and dysfunction".

So, in accordance with your own statement, "For something to be considered a mental illness it needs to cause distress and dysfunction" and the fact that anal sex, which is a common behavior of male homosexuals, does cause distress and dysfunction, which is proven by the fact that medically is known to cause injury and dysfunction, then you are, in fact, saying that homosexuality is a mental illness. When your statements, that have been quoted here, are taken together, that is the meaning they express.
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I have never experienced distress or dysfunction from anal sex. If you are concerned about that region of humanity you probably should seek to ban toilets. They are directly linked to hemorrhoids and other rectal problems. Using a toilet is very unnatural for humans. Countries that do not have toilets tend to only have incidents of hemorrhoids in pregnant women.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

OscarB63 said:
duh....not 100% of humans are cannibals. keep flailing and failing

using that ****ed up logic, serial killing is normal since 100% of serial killers kill a series of people. child molestation is normal since 100% of child molestors molest kids. rape is normal since 100% of rapists rape people.

I hope you can see how stupid that line of reasoning is.....
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Yes, Duh. You cannot use statistical norm to decide if homosexuality is abnormal, THat is stupid line of reasoning. You are wrongly trying to use math and ethnocentrism to show sexual orientation as normal or abnormal.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

MACS-24 said:
Yes, Duh. You cannot use statistical norm to decide if homosexuality is abnormal, THat is stupid line of reasoning. You are wrongly trying to use math and ethnocentrism to show sexual orientation as normal or abnormal.
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duh, not too smart are you. that is my entire frelling point. normal or abnormal is irrelevant when discussing whether or not homosexuality is "good" or "bad". and it is an undeniable fact that statistically homosexuality is abnormal.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

Conservative said:
61% of the people in N.C. voted against SSM, the polls were a lot closer than that
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wouldnt matter if it was 80%

just like interracial marriage when 80+ of the country was against it

when push comes to shove, equal rights is winning and very soon SCOTUS is going to rule and make it national.
 
re: Actress Ellen Page: "I am gay"[W:1222]

AGENT J said:
wouldnt matter if it was 80%

just like interracial marriage when 80+ of the country was against it

when push comes to shove, equal rights is winning and very soon SCOTUS is going to rule and make it national.
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It does matter, sexual orientation isn't a civil right, race is. Yours is a very slippery slope because you do have the same rights as I have, to marry anyone of the opposite sex that will have you
 
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