Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat[W:600]

j-mac · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
They didn't write it in the agreement. They said if the company unionized it would compromise such monies.

Oh, so it's not in the agreement, but it is eh? Wink wink....you're full of it.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

ludin said:
yep because that is what the people at the plant were saying.

Your point?

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

j-mac said:
Oh, so it's not in the agreement, but it is eh? Wink wink....you're full of it.

I'm not full of it. You are full of it. The agreement was being used against the company as leverage.

j-mac · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Your point?

The point is that you and other libs can't understand why anyone would turn down a union, so you make **** up and spread lies to male excuses for losing.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

j-mac said:
The point is that you and other libs can't understand why anyone would turn down a union, so you make **** up and spread lies to male excuses for losing.

The point is the people sited the number one reason they voted no is because of the smear fear campaign. Nothing ethical about it.

cpwill · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

DA60 said:
'In a stinging defeat that could accelerate the decades-long decline of the United Auto Workers, employees voted against union representation at Volkswagen AG's Chattanooga, Tennessee plant, which had been seen as organized labor's best chance to expand in the U.S. South.

Retired Tennessee Circuit Court Judge Sam Payne, who oversaw the count, said workers voted against UAW representation by 712 to 626.'

Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat | Reuters

In other News Today, People Who Look at Detroit Want No Part of It.

j-mac · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
The point is the people sited the number one reason they voted no is because of the smear fear campaign. Nothing ethical about it.

Oh please. Unions have used bully tactics for decades, if not since the start. Cry me a river. You can't handle your own tactics used against you.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

j-mac said:
Oh please. Unions have used bully tactics for decades, if not since the start. Cry me a river. You can't handle your own tactics used against you.

What does politicians getting themselves involved in union fear/smear campaigns have to do with the power struggles between unions and companies from the past?

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
His threats along with the campaign of lies and fear very well may have had a hand in that decision.

Sunspot activity could have influenced the election.

This obsession with Corker is so telling. It is the lamest of lame excuses. Corker is in no position to either reward or credibly threaten V.W. All this whining about Corker is B.S.

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Another poster sited the number one reason the people voted against the union was because they feared it would turn into the big 3.

Did the plant workers have any reason to believe that unionizing would result in higher wages? Or in lost jobs?

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
I'm not full of it. You are full of it. The agreement was being used against the company as leverage.

Why is it so hard to admit that private sector unions simply don't have that much to offer nowadays?

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
Sunspot activity could have influenced the election.

This obsession with Corker is so telling. It is the lamest of lame excuses. Corker is in no position to either reward or credibly threaten V.W. All this whining about Corker is B.S.

No, another poster already sited the number one reason reason why the workers voted no. It had to do with the fear and smear campaign not sunspot.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
Did the plant workers have any reason to believe that unionizing would result in higher wages? Or in lost jobs?

Feel free to site it.

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
The point is the people sited the number one reason they voted no is because of the smear fear campaign. Nothing ethical about it.

Yes, you keep citing that as the number one reason, and it's a ridiculous claim. Constant repetition doesn't improve it. The truth is that the UAW had little, if anything, to offer the workers. This whole episode was all about the union and its flailing attempts to maintain its relevance post-Detroit.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
Why is it so hard to admit that private sector unions simply don't have that much to offer nowadays?

Part of the reason wages are down so low in this country is because the loss of unions. In the past, even if a company did not unionize, it would keep wages up around the area because that was a way to keep unions at bay. Now they have no competition nor reason to keep wages up in this country. The new race it to the bottom.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
Yes, you keep citing that as the number one reason, and it's a ridiculous claim. Constant repetition doesn't improve it. The truth is that the UAW had little, if anything, to offer the workers. This whole episode was all about the union and its flailing attempts to maintain its relevance post-Detroit.

His claim was not ridiculous. You just don't like that because it doesn't fit into your little preconceived notions.

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Part of the reason wages are down so low in this country is because the loss of unions. In the past, even if a company did not unionize, it would keep wages up around the area because that was a way to keep unions at bay. Now they have no competition nor reason to keep wages up in this country. The new race it to the bottom.

What's the evidence to support this claim? Why should we believe that causality worked as you suggest? [Hint: No reason.]

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
His claim was not ridiculous. You just don't like that because it doesn't fit into your little preconceived notions.

His claim was ridiculous and your belief to the contrary doesn't make it less ridiculous. There is NO evidence to back it up. There is NO reason to believe the plant workers cared about Corker's opinion, much less be swayed by it. Corker was in no position to deliver anything.

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
What's the evidence to support this claim? Why should we believe that causality worked as you suggest? [Hint: No reason.]

Abstract-
From 1973 to 2007, private sector union membership in the United States declined from 34 to 8 percent for men and from 16 to 6 percent for women. During this period, inequality in hourly wages increased by over 40 percent. We report a decomposition, relating rising inequality to the union wage distribution’s shrinking weight. We argue that unions helped institutionalize norms of equity, reducing the dispersion of nonunion wages in highly unionized regions and industries. Accounting for unions’ effect on union and nonunion wages suggests that the decline of organized labor explains a fifth to a third of the growth in inequality—an effect comparable to the growing stratification of wages by education. Unions, Norms, and the Rise in U.S. Wage Inequality

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
His claim was ridiculous and your belief to the contrary doesn't make it less ridiculous. There is NO evidence to back it up. There is NO reason to believe the plant workers cared about Corker's opinion, much less be swayed by it. Corker was in no position to deliver anything.

To the contrary, Corker is in a very powerful position. Threats/scare tactics he or any politician makes toward people living under them is unethical.

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Abstract-
From 1973 to 2007, private sector union membership in the United States declined from 34 to 8 percent for men and from 16 to 6 percent for women. During this period, inequality in hourly wages increased by over 40 percent. We report a decomposition, relating rising inequality to the union wage distribution’s shrinking weight. We argue that unions helped institutionalize norms of equity, reducing the dispersion of nonunion wages in highly unionized regions and industries. Accounting for unions’ effect on union and nonunion wages suggests that the decline of organized labor explains a fifth to a third of the growth in inequality—an effect comparable to the growing stratification of wages by education. Unions, Norms, and the Rise in U.S. Wage Inequality

An alternative view is HERE.

Unions were able to raise wages above competitive levels by capturing economic rents which, to a large extent, no longer exist. See: Why the UAW Lost | RealClearPolitics

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
To the contrary, Corker is in a very powerful position. Threats/scare tactics he or any politician makes toward people living under them is unethical.

He is a U.S. Senator. What exactly was he in a position to actually do?

rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
An alternative view is HERE.

Unions were able to raise wages above competitive levels by capturing economic rents which, to a large extent, no longer exist. See: Why the UAW Lost | RealClearPolitics

Neoliberalism has contributed to the race to the bottom. I never stated the Walmart model has harmed unions because it has turned our system into the race to the bottom. It's time for a paradigm shift so we don't have to continue this race to the bottom. The German model was a great example of a new model (for US) that is well worth trying here. Even as your article states (and I agree)

The UAW saw the Chattanooga vote as a chance to emphasize a more collaborative and less confrontational model, embracing the mantra that companies survive only by staying competitive. "With every company that we work with," said UAW President Bob King, "we're concerned about competitiveness." By finding efficiencies, the idea is to "have higher wages and benefits" paid from the fruits of cooperation."

Read more: Why the UAW Lost | RealClearPolitics
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rabbitcaebannog · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

wbcoleman said:
He is a U.S. Senator. What exactly was he in a position to actually do?

Act ethically.

wbcoleman · Feb 20, 2014

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

rabbitcaebannog said:
Act ethically.

OK, you're going to keep using Corker as an excuse. Lame, but what the heck.

As an aside, there is nothing unethical about expressing one's political opinion, or expressing an opinion about a union election, or even trying to influence a union election, which I doubt that Mr. Corker actually managed to do.