• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat[W:600]

Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

IOW, you're #'s are complete BS

There not my numbers.

I believe those numbers are for a decade of political contributions by the UAW. Take the numbers you provided and multiply them for three or four of the past Presidential elections and they look like the numbers UnionFacts came up with.

But it doesn't matter how much the UAW spent getting Obama elected and reelected but what percentage of union dues went to Obama and what percentage of the UAW union members supported Obama.

Most not all but most unions have become nothing more than Democrat political money machines.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Just curious NIMBY, what do you do for a living?
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

what do you do for a living?
Is sucking the US Government's metaphorical teat doing something for a living?
I wouldn't think it would be, but you never know what others think, so I thought I would ask.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

'In a stinging defeat that could accelerate the decades-long decline of the United Auto Workers, employees voted against union representation at Volkswagen AG's Chattanooga, Tennessee plant, which had been seen as organized labor's best chance to expand in the U.S. South.

Retired Tennessee Circuit Court Judge Sam Payne, who oversaw the count, said workers voted against UAW representation by 712 to 626.'

Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat | Reuters


This is great news...........Unions at one time were a necessary evil but they have long outlived their usefulness........90% of them are crooked anyway.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

There not my numbers.

I believe those numbers are for a decade of political contributions by the UAW.

They are the #'s you posted. Obviously, you believe those #'s are credible even though you don't even know what those #'s represent
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

every time the word "union" comes up, be it it public or private, you all swarm in and start bashing labor.

i'm not for giving unions everything they want and choking companies to death. however, i'm also not for depressed wages and low job security, either. i don't want my kid to grow up in a world where it's "good job, you're fired, independent contractor," and multiple part time jobs with ****ty wages and ****tier hours. that's where we're going. for some of us, that's where we're at. the balance of power between employer and employee is very skewed right now, and needs a correction. labor organization is the best way to get there.


It's not skewed. Where do you get such ludicrous ideas?
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

'In a stinging defeat that could accelerate the decades-long decline of the United Auto Workers, employees voted against union representation at Volkswagen AG's Chattanooga, Tennessee plant,
****ing idiots! If they are that stupid then I really don't have much sympathy for them.

The same thing with Walmart workers.

If they refuse to help themselves and unionize then why the hell should I give a damn about them when those companies abuse them?
 
Last edited:
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Chevy's job bank where they would pay people who did nothing all day full wages and benefits, and pensions for sitting in a room for 4 hours watching tv and playing cards was one of the reasons that chevy was going under.

i don't support unions becoming too powerful or demanding unreasonable benefits. i support worker organization to help them to sell their labor at the best price. right now, the scale is tipped completely to the employer's side. i'd like to see a more equitable balance.

No job should be considered secure. your job security depends on your ability to produce. if you are not producing why should you keep your job?

this is not the truth. i have lost jobs in which i was a top performer simply because i was an independent contractor, and the contract just ended. in reality. i was a full time employee, and was promised a transition to a full time job. when they pulled the rug out from under me, i had no recourse.

others without significant education have it even worse. they can be fired for any reason or for no reason at all. it's fine if businesses want to try to operate that way, but unions are going to be the natural response.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

It's not skewed. Where do you get such ludicrous ideas?

it is skewed. we've gone from a national economy to a global economy, and technology is causing us to enter a post-labor economy. union membership is way down, wages have stagnated, and the job supply has increasingly become low wage part time work. the balance of power is absolutely skewed towards the employer. if you're an average American, there are probably three people waiting in line for your job right now.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

I don't know the answer and I'm hoping someone will be able to help clarify or tell me why I'm wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, your constitution or bill of rights protects a citizen's right of freedom of assembly or freedom of association. Since this is identified as a human right and a civil liberty, why is it constitutional for a law to be created that bans "work councils" of employees in businesses unless those work councils have union oversight?

Seems to me that if you have to have a certified union in order to create and participate in a work council as envisioned by VW and active in VW plants world wide, that is on its face abusing the civil liberty and human rights of the workers who aren't unionized.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

They are the #'s you posted. Obviously, you believe those #'s are credible even though you don't even know what those #'s represent

My source had a link to their source that was the same source that you used. And it seems you had a problem with my source using your source.

I and they (UnionFacts) happen to actually followed the links and researched.

The numbers I posted are correct and they come from the same source you used, OpenSecrets.

It just happens UnionFacts and I went further than you did. You only looked at one election cycle, 2012.


UAW CONTRIBUTIONS:

$45,890,871
since 1990 LOBBYING

$31,373,201
since 1998

United Auto Workers: Summary | OpenSecrets
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

'In a stinging defeat that could accelerate the decades-long decline of the United Auto Workers, employees voted against union representation at Volkswagen AG's Chattanooga, Tennessee plant, which had been seen as organized labor's best chance to expand in the U.S. South.

Retired Tennessee Circuit Court Judge Sam Payne, who oversaw the count, said workers voted against UAW representation by 712 to 626.'

Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat | Reuters

not surprising,the japanese and german automakers pay fairly good wages to american workers..i know alot of workers for the japanese companies in the south arent union,and dont really want them.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

I don't know the answer and I'm hoping someone will be able to help clarify or tell me why I'm wrong.

If I'm not mistaken, your constitution or bill of rights protects a citizen's right of freedom of assembly or freedom of association. Since this is identified as a human right and a civil liberty, why is it constitutional for a law to be created that bans "work councils" of employees in businesses unless those work councils have union oversight?

Seems to me that if you have to have a certified union in order to create and participate in a work council as envisioned by VW and active in VW plants world wide, that is on its face abusing the civil liberty and human rights of the workers who aren't unionized.

I believe the law is the company can not be the one to have set up the council/union. Which generally means it has to be administered by an outside organization. Imagine paying dues to a union that is controlled by the company you are working for. I expect it arose from the company towns that the US used to have
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

'In a stinging defeat that could accelerate the decades-long decline of the United Auto Workers, employees voted against union representation at Volkswagen AG's Chattanooga, Tennessee plant, which had been seen as organized labor's best chance to expand in the U.S. South.

Retired Tennessee Circuit Court Judge Sam Payne, who oversaw the count, said workers voted against UAW representation by 712 to 626.'

Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat | Reuters

Excellent news. Made my day.:peace
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

We need to impeach Sen. Corker and Gov. Haslam who lied about what VW represented.
VW had to correct Corker's and Haslam's lies several times.
It is okay for the KOCH brothers to dump tens of millions of secret monies, while GOP posters fret over Unions.

And it's okay for Duke Energy to dump tens of millions of pounds of coal-ash in NC waters.
McCrory is the next dirty GOP governor ready to get raked over the coals, literally.
The good people of the South are only a decade away from rising up against this GOP politburo to save their environment and way of living .

A decade ago, this vote would not have even taken place.
That it was this close shows how close the workers are to being freed from the GOP Gulags.

That a United States Senator had to intervene and lie his A$$ off about VW shows how desperate the GOP is.
VW corrected Corker several times and you didn't notice Sen. Alexander saying anything, since he is up for reelection.

That Grover Norquist had to be called in to buy up billboards replacing the word AUTO with OBAMA in UAW should remind DEMs just how low the
GOP will go to maintain their death grip once a right-to-work status is determined.

The GOP has now given the DEMs plenty of new material here.
It is now up to the DEMs to use it wisely and go-for-the-throat, as the GOP has just done .

A bottomless pit of whining. Why not just let the workers the plant decide for themselves? That's all that happened here.:peace
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

i don't support unions becoming too powerful or demanding unreasonable benefits. i support worker organization to help them to sell their labor at the best price. right now, the scale is tipped completely to the employer's side. i'd like to see a more equitable balance.

Right the company didn't want to give the job bank the UAW threatened to strike if they didn't. the unions have destroyed themselves by being to greedy in a global market. had they continue to make reasonable demands then the situation would be different. Companies are moving away from unions but offering the same pay and benefits. the only difference is that they go with a 401k instead of a pension plan.

The reason that a lot of manufacturing has left the US is due to multiple reasons. 1 being that other places offered it cheaper.
2. the unions kept demanding more and more and more without cause to the companies situation to be competitive.

VW is use to dealing with job councils between workers. they haven't dealt with the likes of the UAW, or the teamsters or anyone else.

People will form their own union if businesses get to far out of hand. there are only so many places they can move.

this is not the truth. i have lost jobs in which i was a top performer simply because i was an independent contractor, and the contract just ended. in reality. i was a full time employee, and was promised a transition to a full time job. when they pulled the rug out from under me, i had no recourse.

It is true. you are an exception. you were under a contract that was set for a period of time. contract to hire is just that contract to hire. depending on who you were working for they do not have to hire you on permanently. you knew this going into it. that is the nature of contract work.

others without significant education have it even worse. they can be fired for any reason or for no reason at all. it's fine if businesses want to try to operate that way, but unions are going to be the natural response.

that isn't a problem with the business but with the people.

without an education or some kind of job training or certification you simply cannot demand more for your skills union or not. a large part of the union issue is that they hire anyone on regardless of skill. so someone is paying top dollar for an unskilled-untrained worker. that costs a fortune at union wages.

The foreign automakers keep the union out by offering good benefits and pay that is equal or more than what the union is paying now. so there is no reason for them to join. they would actually lose money if they joined the union.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

An interesting outcome. It will be even more fascinating to watch as this goes on in the future, as it will. This was a very close vote. For those of us that were born and raised in volatile union strongholds, we can attest to all the shananigans that will be going on behind the scenes out of frustration by this defeat. For Volkswagon, they are no doubt already in a huddle in the board room planning their exit in the future.

Not sure why they would exit. Their TN plant is among their most profitable and productive.:peace
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Right the company didn't want to give the job bank the UAW threatened to strike if they didn't. the unions have destroyed themselves by being to greedy in a global market. had they continue to make reasonable demands then the situation would be different. Companies are moving away from unions but offering the same pay and benefits. the only difference is that they go with a 401k instead of a pension plan.

The reason that a lot of manufacturing has left the US is due to multiple reasons. 1 being that other places offered it cheaper.
2. the unions kept demanding more and more and more without cause to the companies situation to be competitive.

VW is use to dealing with job councils between workers. they haven't dealt with the likes of the UAW, or the teamsters or anyone else.

People will form their own union if businesses get to far out of hand. there are only so many places they can move.



It is true. you are an exception. you were under a contract that was set for a period of time. contract to hire is just that contract to hire. depending on who you were working for they do not have to hire you on permanently. you knew this going into it. that is the nature of contract work.



that isn't a problem with the business but with the people.

without an education or some kind of job training or certification you simply cannot demand more for your skills union or not. a large part of the union issue is that they hire anyone on regardless of skill. so someone is paying top dollar for an unskilled-untrained worker. that costs a fortune at union wages.

The foreign automakers keep the union out by offering good benefits and pay that is equal or more than what the union is paying now. so there is no reason for them to join. they would actually lose money if they joined the union.

as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

I had the priviledge of knowing Ralph Engelstad who was one of those people who really ends up affecting your life. He was a famous "rich man" in his era and took a liking to me when I approached him about putting a gift shop in the as yet unbuilt and unbelieved Imperial Palace Hotel. He offered me a lot of opportunities that I wisely took. Anyway, he was a hell of a dude.

When he built The Imperial Palace, he basically built it himself, no partners. He hated Unions and the IP was the only non-union hotel on the LV Strip for many years. He told me how he thwarted the Unions. "I hate those bastards so I pay much better than Union scale so nobody even tries".

I suspect VW pays very well and that is the easiest way to keep the Union out. Even if you are "pro-union", you must admit this is an even better solution.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Not sure why they would exit. Their TN plant is among their most profitable and productive.:peace

They aren't going to exit. they have pumped to much money into that plant to exit not to mention the money they are doing.
In fact they expanded the plant recently to start a second start up line.

if the UAW was actually a good union that helped preserve jobs and other things then yes i would say their move was foolish but given that it was the UAW that helped collapse the american auto industry rejecting them was a good idea.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.

The people at the TN plant disagree with this. all the things you say you don't like about unions is the exact thing that the UAW represents. The reason they voted it down is that VW already pays and gives the working conditions better than what the UAW could deliver.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

An interesting outcome. It will be even more fascinating to watch as this goes on in the future, as it will. This was a very close vote. For those of us that were born and raised in volatile union strongholds, we can attest to all the shananigans that will be going on behind the scenes out of frustration by this defeat. For Volkswagon, they are no doubt already in a huddle in the board room planning their exit in the future.

Volkswagen does not fear unions. They work very well with unions in Germany. Its the Republicans and the South that fear the boogeyman.

Volkswagen: Union vote won't affect U.S. plans
 
Last edited:
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

Another excellent post from an independent moderate who looks for the best from both the Company and the Union.
To add, I finds those hypocritical that moan of the money Unions donate and the defense of the money Companies donate .
as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.
 
Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

The people at the TN plant disagree with this. all the things you say you don't like about unions is the exact thing that the UAW represents. The reason they voted it down is that VW already pays and gives the working conditions better than what the UAW could deliver.

like i said, treat your workers well, and they generally will not unionize. however, in many industries, this isn't the status quo.

i'm sure the Republican threats of punishment played some role in this one, as well.
 
Back
Top Bottom