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Thread: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat[W:600]

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    i don't support unions becoming too powerful or demanding unreasonable benefits. i support worker organization to help them to sell their labor at the best price. right now, the scale is tipped completely to the employer's side. i'd like to see a more equitable balance.
    Right the company didn't want to give the job bank the UAW threatened to strike if they didn't. the unions have destroyed themselves by being to greedy in a global market. had they continue to make reasonable demands then the situation would be different. Companies are moving away from unions but offering the same pay and benefits. the only difference is that they go with a 401k instead of a pension plan.

    The reason that a lot of manufacturing has left the US is due to multiple reasons. 1 being that other places offered it cheaper.
    2. the unions kept demanding more and more and more without cause to the companies situation to be competitive.

    VW is use to dealing with job councils between workers. they haven't dealt with the likes of the UAW, or the teamsters or anyone else.

    People will form their own union if businesses get to far out of hand. there are only so many places they can move.

    this is not the truth. i have lost jobs in which i was a top performer simply because i was an independent contractor, and the contract just ended. in reality. i was a full time employee, and was promised a transition to a full time job. when they pulled the rug out from under me, i had no recourse.
    It is true. you are an exception. you were under a contract that was set for a period of time. contract to hire is just that contract to hire. depending on who you were working for they do not have to hire you on permanently. you knew this going into it. that is the nature of contract work.

    others without significant education have it even worse. they can be fired for any reason or for no reason at all. it's fine if businesses want to try to operate that way, but unions are going to be the natural response.
    that isn't a problem with the business but with the people.

    without an education or some kind of job training or certification you simply cannot demand more for your skills union or not. a large part of the union issue is that they hire anyone on regardless of skill. so someone is paying top dollar for an unskilled-untrained worker. that costs a fortune at union wages.

    The foreign automakers keep the union out by offering good benefits and pay that is equal or more than what the union is paying now. so there is no reason for them to join. they would actually lose money if they joined the union.

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    An interesting outcome. It will be even more fascinating to watch as this goes on in the future, as it will. This was a very close vote. For those of us that were born and raised in volatile union strongholds, we can attest to all the shananigans that will be going on behind the scenes out of frustration by this defeat. For Volkswagon, they are no doubt already in a huddle in the board room planning their exit in the future.
    Not sure why they would exit. Their TN plant is among their most profitable and productive.
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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Right the company didn't want to give the job bank the UAW threatened to strike if they didn't. the unions have destroyed themselves by being to greedy in a global market. had they continue to make reasonable demands then the situation would be different. Companies are moving away from unions but offering the same pay and benefits. the only difference is that they go with a 401k instead of a pension plan.

    The reason that a lot of manufacturing has left the US is due to multiple reasons. 1 being that other places offered it cheaper.
    2. the unions kept demanding more and more and more without cause to the companies situation to be competitive.

    VW is use to dealing with job councils between workers. they haven't dealt with the likes of the UAW, or the teamsters or anyone else.

    People will form their own union if businesses get to far out of hand. there are only so many places they can move.



    It is true. you are an exception. you were under a contract that was set for a period of time. contract to hire is just that contract to hire. depending on who you were working for they do not have to hire you on permanently. you knew this going into it. that is the nature of contract work.



    that isn't a problem with the business but with the people.

    without an education or some kind of job training or certification you simply cannot demand more for your skills union or not. a large part of the union issue is that they hire anyone on regardless of skill. so someone is paying top dollar for an unskilled-untrained worker. that costs a fortune at union wages.

    The foreign automakers keep the union out by offering good benefits and pay that is equal or more than what the union is paying now. so there is no reason for them to join. they would actually lose money if they joined the union.
    as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

    it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

    the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    I had the priviledge of knowing Ralph Engelstad who was one of those people who really ends up affecting your life. He was a famous "rich man" in his era and took a liking to me when I approached him about putting a gift shop in the as yet unbuilt and unbelieved Imperial Palace Hotel. He offered me a lot of opportunities that I wisely took. Anyway, he was a hell of a dude.

    When he built The Imperial Palace, he basically built it himself, no partners. He hated Unions and the IP was the only non-union hotel on the LV Strip for many years. He told me how he thwarted the Unions. "I hate those bastards so I pay much better than Union scale so nobody even tries".

    I suspect VW pays very well and that is the easiest way to keep the Union out. Even if you are "pro-union", you must admit this is an even better solution.

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Not sure why they would exit. Their TN plant is among their most profitable and productive.
    They aren't going to exit. they have pumped to much money into that plant to exit not to mention the money they are doing.
    In fact they expanded the plant recently to start a second start up line.

    if the UAW was actually a good union that helped preserve jobs and other things then yes i would say their move was foolish but given that it was the UAW that helped collapse the american auto industry rejecting them was a good idea.

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

    it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

    the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.
    The people at the TN plant disagree with this. all the things you say you don't like about unions is the exact thing that the UAW represents. The reason they voted it down is that VW already pays and gives the working conditions better than what the UAW could deliver.

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by SayMyName View Post
    An interesting outcome. It will be even more fascinating to watch as this goes on in the future, as it will. This was a very close vote. For those of us that were born and raised in volatile union strongholds, we can attest to all the shananigans that will be going on behind the scenes out of frustration by this defeat. For Volkswagon, they are no doubt already in a huddle in the board room planning their exit in the future.
    Volkswagen does not fear unions. They work very well with unions in Germany. Its the Republicans and the South that fear the boogeyman.

    Volkswagen: Union vote won't affect U.S. plans

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    I would add to your excellent post that Volkswagon now fears the rabid GOP, if anything .
    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Volkswagen does not fear unions. They work very well with unions in Germany. Its the Republicans and the South that fear the boogeyman.

    Volkswagen: Union vote won't affect U.S. plans
    Last edited by NIMBY; 02-16-14 at 09:46 PM.
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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Another excellent post from an independent moderate who looks for the best from both the Company and the Union.
    To add, I finds those hypocritical that moan of the money Unions donate and the defense of the money Companies donate .
    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    as i said before, i don't support measures like job bank or not being able to fire an employee for any reason. i also don't support using a union to make a company completely unprofitable. however, i do support employees organizing to sell their labor at the best possible price.

    it's not a monochromatic issue. it's like if i asked you if you commute to work at 1 mph or 140 mph, and ignored the fact that there's an entire range of speeds in between.

    the fact remains that right now, the average worker is having a tougher slog, and would benefit from union representation and collective bargaining.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Tennessee Volkswagen plant votes against union in UAW defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    The people at the TN plant disagree with this. all the things you say you don't like about unions is the exact thing that the UAW represents. The reason they voted it down is that VW already pays and gives the working conditions better than what the UAW could deliver.
    like i said, treat your workers well, and they generally will not unionize. however, in many industries, this isn't the status quo.

    i'm sure the Republican threats of punishment played some role in this one, as well.

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