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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

  1. #431
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Judges hold way more power than the state congress or governor.

    The same goes for the Federal government with the SCOTUS over the congress and president.
    I don't agree at all. One major limiting factor to the power of judges is the fact that a law must be challenged in court in order to be overturned. Plus, there are levels of judges that the law must work through in order to do this. On top of all this, there must be shown that someone is actually being harmed/affected by a law in order for a challenge to a law to even make it to court.

    So, for example, those proposed laws in Idaho that are just chock full of discrimination toward gays cannot even be challenged should they be enacted until after they are used against someone, despite the fact that one of them was already basically ruled on as unconstitutional with the Romer decision.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Judges hold way more power than the state congress or governor.

    The same goes for the Federal government with the SCOTUS over the congress and president.
    Not at all. People ignore judges all the time. Judges have absolutely no power to back up anything they say or do. The executive branch actively ignores judge rulings regularly. If anything, they're the weakest branch of the government.

  3. #433
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    you don't have to get upset about me questioning your credibility, i simply saying check before you speak (type?) you said "ALL" when every survey out there in within the (as you said) margin of error. But however since this one is a few percentages in the opposite direction now you bring up the margin of error point. I find that very interesting for a person with a high amount of integrity, go from so sure to margin of error and going for ALL surveys to most. I will definitly say that ALL surverys are within the margin of error as a whole.
    You are wrong. There are lots of polls that show that same sex marriage support is above the simple majority, somewhere around 53-57%, putting it outside the margin of error.

    In U.S., 52% Back Law to Legalize Gay Marriage in 50 States

    Heck, this one was done well over 6 months ago.

    "If given the opportunity to vote on a law legalizing gay marriage in all 50 states, the slight majority of Americans, 52%, say they would cast their vote in favor, while 43% would vote against it."

    "For results based on the samples of 972 national adults in Form A and 1,055 national adults in Form B, the margin of sampling error is 4 percentage points."

    This one would be outside the margin of error applied to both sides negatively toward ssm support, because if you subtract 4% from 52%, you get 48%, and if you add 4% to 43%, you get 47%. Same sex marriage being legal still would win here.

    So your last statement is false.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    Alright Kiddo, you have to have a bit of logic...

    can you be a "deist" without being religious? just because he was a deist doesn't mean he wasn't religious.
    I'm actually close to being a deist myself. Deists do not follow the strict rules of a religion because they generally reject absolute authority of religious texts and/or organizations as a whole.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 02-20-14 at 11:43 AM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) thats not a problem its made up its 100% meaningless and bringing up religion in a discussion of legal marriage is a complete failed strawman.

    Legal marriage factually has nothing to do with religion. this fact will never change
    Unfortunately, religion is an issue with those who are adherents to it. And since we live in a representative democracy it becomes an issue. Wheter it is right or wrong is another issue of course.
    2.) so like i said it wont be up to the states since that would violate rights
    States determine on the rules of accessibility to marriage. SSM is an new idea and the Supreme Court may decide to allow the States to show a compelling State intrest on the restricting of marriage to opposite gender only. They may decide to require the States to accept it otherwise.

    3.) still dodging the questions and not committing. This thread as a topic and its equal rights for gays so apply your concerns to that and give us real examples instead of dodges and meaningless generalizations.
    We all know that there are Court decisions that were not based on Constitutional grounds and some which seem to be based on nothing more than what the Judge thought was right.

    4.) what is " extra-constitutional reasoning" and whats an example of that pertaining to equal rights for gays
    Anything reasoning not based on i the meaning of the Constitution which for the most part is written in plain language and should be easily to do so. The issue about SSM is that marriage has been between only between two people and opposite gender only and the question becomes, "Is there a compelling case for State interest to maintaining marriage as it is now or is there a compelling case that it is a violation of Rights to do the same?".

    5.) see 4 what specifically would be forced on the states that applies to equal rights for gays
    6.) see 5 and 4

    please provide REAL answers
    I am not going to go further in addressing statements that I made to others.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    their are no legal religious connections to marriage In this nation though
    That is true, no legal connections.

    and its the moves to ban same sex marriage that have the problem with spurious reasoning
    There are methods including the Courts to weed out bad law that might result. If the Courts do rule for SSM I hope that they make an air tight argument based on Constitutional Rights.
    that combined with the discrimination and lack of equal protection under the law justifies forcing those states to allow them
    So long as it is not just a "because we say so" ruling.

    they can grumble about it all they like after
    We do not want this becoming like the abortion controversy.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I'm not a republican or a democrat....

    But why is being gay so "great?"

    Because I like pussy is that supper great too?

    There is certainly bias there....

    People want to talk about bias and **** - well what the **** is up with this?

    She's special for being a lesbian and I'm just some dude because I like kooters - wtf...
    its suppose great when people don't give us **** for liking a certain gender or both in the case of bisexual people

    if you want being gay to stop being a big deal then gay people need to be treated fairly and not have a big deal made out of them

    it might be slow but the commotion will fade after that

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    I agree there is an extreme bias why is it okay to have homosexual parades and I cant go out and have a heterosexual parade. or why can I go have a black Parade that people will call civil rights but if someone goes and has a white parade it is racist?
    cant you go out and do those things?

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    We do not want this becoming like the abortion controversy.
    It won't. The abortion controversy is very different than same sex marriage. In all likelihood, we will see the same thing that happened with interracial marriage after the Loving ruling, it just became a non-issue to the vast majority of people.

    The abortion issue involves an easily debatable question of the rights of (at least) two living beings, one inside the womb and the one who owns the womb (and possibly even the rights of a third party, depending on point of view). You can even easily bring up that measurable harm can be done to either of the two beings, depending on which one's rights are determined to be more important.

    While the only people who really have a any rights being affected when it comes to same sex marriage is those who wish to be in a same sex marriage. Heterosexuals, religious people, opposite sex couples, children, society even, cannot be shown to be measurably harmed by allowing same sex couples to be married, just the same as when it was a restriction on race preventing some people from getting married. Marriage is about a private contract, not a question of literal life or death and questions about when life begins or medical privacy.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #440
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    1.)Unfortunately, religion is an issue with those who are adherents to it. And since we live in a representative democracy it becomes an issue. Wheter it is right or wrong is another issue of course.
    2.)States determine on the rules of accessibility to marriage. SSM is an new idea and the Supreme Court may decide to allow the States to show a compelling State intrest on the restricting of marriage to opposite gender only. They may decide to require the States to accept it otherwise.
    3.)We all know that there are Court decisions that were not based on Constitutional grounds and some which seem to be based on nothing more than what the Judge thought was right.
    4.)Anything reasoning not based on i the meaning of the Constitution which for the most part is written in plain language and should be easily to do so. The issue about SSM is that marriage has been between only between two people and opposite gender only and the question becomes, "Is there a compelling case for State interest to maintaining marriage as it is now or is there a compelling case that it is a violation of Rights to do the same?".
    5.)I am not going to go further in addressing statements that I made to others.
    1.) nothign unfortunate about it, religion is factually meaningless to this issue and anybody that disagrees doesnt understand the constitution and rights we have or how this country works. SO those caught up on religion are severely misguided because religious marriage factually has nothing to do with legal marriage.

    2.) yes states can determine SOME grey area stuff but they can not infringe on rights, see loving vs virgina
    so again like i said this part will not be up to the states they dont get to infringe on individual rights and thats what it is coming down too. THis wont be happening all the rulings that already exist are evidence.

    3.) thanks for that random statement it doesnt change anything and you are STILL dodging the question which is VERY telling. This is MULTIPLE judges and many rulings.

    I will ask you AGAIN, This thread as a topic and its equal rights for gays so apply your concerns to that and give us real examples instead of dodges and meaningless generalizations.

    4.) again more double talk and no factual explanation why do you keep doing this it exposes how severely weak your position is.

    so again answer the question DIRECTLY, what is " extra-constitutional reasoning" and whats an example of that pertaining to equal rights for gays

    5.) translation: you have no factual answers or examples and will continue to dodge further exposing your failed position. Let us know when you can answer those questions and give factual examples. I accept your concession.
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