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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    What source considered it unnatural?
    Moving the goalpost now? No one commented on it being natural or unnatural, since by any accepted definition of natural it clearly is not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    also somethign to be clear on and i cant speak for everyone but im going to throw this two cents out there


    the question of natural and unnatural is only brought up by anti-gays
    and then the pro-equal rights people simply point out the following:

    that typically thier subjective definition they are using is factually wrong
    the factual definition they are using has a very limited scope or specific narrow usage

    and or most importantly natural and unnatural is 100% totally meaningless to equal rights for gays and this topic, its a side discussion that has no actual merit

    its complete strawman that has ZERO impact
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, opinion, nothing more. And a very pessimistic view of humanity you got there.
    The innate nature of human beings is sinful, it's evil. It's not pessimistic, it's just the truth of the situation and who we are as fallen beings.
    Morals are subjective. No one is asking for your personal approval of their relationships. And normal is relative. Acceptance isn't even being asked for.

    As far as homosexuality goes, it is natural and in no way "dysfunctional". It works just fine and in no way inhibits a species growth/evolution. And sex organs are used for many purposes. Or have you forgotten that every man's sex organ is also used to dispel waste from the body?
    Morals are not subjective. The morals and laws of God are absolute. In the realm of absolutes, under which all things will be judged, subjectivity is wrong. The very notion that "all morals are subjective" is in itself a defeating statement with such a statement being an absolute statement about morality and a self contradicting logical fallacy in and of itself.

    As far as homosexuality goes I have no problem with people that chose to be homosexual. I support their right for legal recognition and have no problem with them or want to impede on their ability to live their lives. My issue comes in with states and the voting rights of others being nullified unfairly and without due representation.

    The dispelling of waste serves a dual function... The act of urination is not sex, that's dishonest to imply as such. Fact of the matter is that evolutionary changes in the penis and vagina evolved to be compatible with each other with intricate physiology to make them as such. The act of sex, biologically speaking, primarily (and sometimes solely) exists to repopulate the species. Species that cannot due so are sexually dysfunctional in that they can't reproduce. Does that dysfunction make them less of a living being? No, but it does mean that their organs and physiology are not able to go towards their intended use or are not able to do so.

    Equal rights has never been about "respecting the right of voters", ever. In fact that is the complete opposite purpose of the 14th Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
    Equal rights has been about the rights of others to vote as equals. People voted on the definition of marriage, one side lost. The fact of the matter is that voters do have rights, and up until just a few years ago amid social changes and judicial activism the default and widely held lawful definition of marriage was one man one woman. I don't think any rational person would say 20 years ago, with the Constitution as written, that we would be seeing rulings like this. Heck, maybe even 5 years ago before SSM became this massive issue in the US. The majority has protection, and with laws that are Constitutional the majority is allowed to set policy per democracy.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The innate nature of human beings is sinful, it's evil. It's not pessimistic, it's just the truth of the situation and who we are as fallen beings.


    Morals are not subjective. The morals and laws of God are absolute. In the realm of absolutes, under which all things will be judged, subjectivity is wrong. The very notion that "all morals are subjective" is in itself a defeating statement with such a statement being an absolute statement about morality and a self contradicting logical fallacy in and of itself.

    As far as homosexuality goes I have no problem with people that chose to be homosexual. I support their right for legal recognition and have no problem with them or want to impede on their ability to live their lives. My issue comes in with states and the voting rights of others being nullified unfairly and without due representation.

    The dispelling of waste serves a dual function... The act of urination is not sex, that's dishonest to imply as such. Fact of the matter is that evolutionary changes in the penis and vagina evolved to be compatible with each other with intricate physiology to make them as such. The act of sex, biologically speaking, primarily (and sometimes solely) exists to repopulate the species. Species that cannot due so are sexually dysfunctional in that they can't reproduce. Does that dysfunction make them less of a living being? No, but it does mean that their organs and physiology are not able to go towards their intended use or are not able to do so.



    Equal rights has been about the rights of others to vote as equals. People voted on the definition of marriage, one side lost. The fact of the matter is that voters do have rights, and up until just a few years ago amid social changes and judicial activism the default and widely held lawful definition of marriage was one man one woman. I don't think any rational person would say 20 years ago, with the Constitution as written, that we would be seeing rulings like this. Heck, maybe even 5 years ago before SSM became this massive issue in the US. The majority has protection, and with laws that are Constitutional the majority is allowed to set policy per democracy.
    morals are subjective
    they might not be PERSONALLY subjective but they are factually subjective in reality and have no meaning with equal rights

    how does one choose to have a homosexual orientation?

    you say you support gays but your posts scream something else

    states and voting rights are intact

    again subjective or factual natural vs unnatural is meaningless to equal rights
    Last edited by AGENT J; 02-14-14 at 02:17 AM.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality...
    Isn't that the whole point of contention? To people who believe the 14th does extend to sexual orientation, your statement reads like a plea to bring back interracial marriage bans in the states which had them struck down by Loving versus Virginia. Put yourself in the shoes of those who disagree with you. If you saw sexual orientation as no different than race would you really see this as "judicial tyranny"?

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Equal rights has been about the rights of others to vote as equals.
    1. We don't live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic.
    2. The will of the people is the US Constitution, not a majority vote of any particular state.
    3. What makes us equal is equal protection under the laws and constitutional protection of our individual liberties.
    4. Marriage is a law and under precedent, a fundamental civil right, and in our country, civil rights should not subject to majority votes.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Moving the goalpost now? No one commented on it being natural or unnatural, since by any accepted definition of natural it clearly is not.
    How so?

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The innate nature of human beings is sinful, it's evil. It's not pessimistic, it's just the truth of the situation and who we are as fallen beings.
    This is only "truth" to you and those that believe as you do. It is in no way a fact. And it is very pessimistic. It fails to recognize the many positive and good things that humans do.


    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Morals are not subjective. The morals and laws of God are absolute. In the realm of absolutes, under which all things will be judged, subjectivity is wrong. The very notion that "all morals are subjective" is in itself a defeating statement with such a statement being an absolute statement about morality and a self contradicting logical fallacy in and of itself.
    Morals are always subjective until the point where you can prove there is a higher power (God) and that His (Her/Its) morals/laws match your beliefs. You cannot currently prove any of that so morals are subjective, all morals. Everyone's, mine and yours. Even those that the vast majority of people share are still subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    As far as homosexuality goes I have no problem with people that chose to be homosexual. I support their right for legal recognition and have no problem with them or want to impede on their ability to live their lives. My issue comes in with states and the voting rights of others being nullified unfairly and without due representation.
    People do not choose to be homosexual. They do not choose their attractions. They choose their relationships, but that is true for everyone. States have not held an ultimate right to a "tyranny of the majority" in quite some time. And many decisions prove this. Votes have always been subject to being restricted by the US Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The dispelling of waste serves a dual function... The act of urination is not sex, that's dishonest to imply as such. Fact of the matter is that evolutionary changes in the penis and vagina evolved to be compatible with each other with intricate physiology to make them as such. The act of sex, biologically speaking, primarily (and sometimes solely) exists to repopulate the species. Species that cannot due so are sexually dysfunctional in that they can't reproduce. Does that dysfunction make them less of a living being? No, but it does mean that their organs and physiology are not able to go towards their intended use or are not able to do so.
    The comment was that the sexual organs are being misused. This is not true. Not only is the penis used to dispel waste, but there is nothing that says that any parts of our body are exclusive use only parts. We don't come with instruction manuals. If something doesn't work the way we are using it, it harms us. Since using the sexual organs in other ways than just procreative sex does no more harm than using those organs for procreative sex, then there is no objective way to say that they are being used wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Equal rights has been about the rights of others to vote as equals. People voted on the definition of marriage, one side lost. The fact of the matter is that voters do have rights, and up until just a few years ago amid social changes and judicial activism the default and widely held lawful definition of marriage was one man one woman. I don't think any rational person would say 20 years ago, with the Constitution as written, that we would be seeing rulings like this. Heck, maybe even 5 years ago before SSM became this massive issue in the US. The majority has protection, and with laws that are Constitutional the majority is allowed to set policy per democracy.
    People voted on the definition of marriage being "two people of the same race" as well. People voted to segregate their schools. People voted to keep inmates from getting married. People have voted on all sorts of laws that are unconstitutional. Many people are stupid and/or gullible.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This is only "truth" to you and those that believe as you do. It is in no way a fact. And it is very pessimistic. It fails to recognize the many positive and good things that humans do.




    Morals are always subjective until the point where you can prove there is a higher power (God) and that His (Her/Its) morals/laws match your beliefs. You cannot currently prove any of that so morals are subjective, all morals. Everyone's, mine and yours. Even those that the vast majority of people share are still subjective.



    People do not choose to be homosexual. They do not choose their attractions. They choose their relationships, but that is true for everyone. States have not held an ultimate right to a "tyranny of the majority" in quite some time. And many decisions prove this. Votes have always been subject to being restricted by the US Constitution.



    The comment was that the sexual organs are being misused. This is not true. Not only is the penis used to dispel waste, but there is nothing that says that any parts of our body are exclusive use only parts. We don't come with instruction manuals. If something doesn't work the way we are using it, it harms us. Since using the sexual organs in other ways than just procreative sex does no more harm than using those organs for procreative sex, then there is no objective way to say that they are being used wrong.



    People voted on the definition of marriage being "two people of the same race" as well. People voted to segregate their schools. People voted to keep inmates from getting married. People have voted on all sorts of laws that are unconstitutional. Many people are stupid and/or gullible.
    correct the strawman argument about the rights of voters is a complete failure, it never has held water, not for womans rights, not for minority rights, not for interracial marriage etc etc

    It has no logical or factual support and the rights of voters are in tact.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    and another one
    and another one
    and another one bites the dust

    even thought this one was stayed (which is awesome in itself because it will go to SCOTUS) the two court cases by FEDERAL judge have BIG TIME verbiage in them. not just saying equality or equal rights or unfair discrimination but UNCONSTITUTIONAL and VIOLATES THE 14th AMENDMENT

    HUGE steps
    this is awesome equal rights is coming and coming soon!!!!!



    link
    Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional | NBC4 Washington

    back-up links:
    Judge: Va. Same-Sex Marriage Ban Unconstitutional - ABC News
    Virginia judge strikes down gay marriage ban
    Judge rules VA gay marriage ban unconstitutional - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News
    Federal judge declares Virginia's ban on same-sex marriage unconstitutional | Fox News
    but what about the victims the people who don't like acknowledging legal same sex marriage they will feel bad

    and they will have to treat these couples like their married because they will be right down to calling them married

    because that's the kind situation their in

    its cruel

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