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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    you open the door for allowing people to marry there best friend for the benefits not for actually being gay homo sexuality is such a minority... that for the benefits that would come to homosexuals is out weighed by the negatives, so I stick to my above noted compromise to create equality.
    That door was always open. Marriages for green cards, or to get your opposite sex friend on your insurance policy, or additional military benefits. If people taking advantage of the system were such a concern, then marriage would have been dropped decades ago.

    The really funny thing is, if I don't get married I can claim a whole host of government benefits as a non working single mom. If I am married I have to claim my spouses income, and would not qualify. So, you know what? Have it your way. Ban me from marrying my fiancee, and we will both take advantage of EVERY SINGLE governmnet welfare benefit there is, since legally we are both single mothers.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    you open the door for allowing people to marry there best friend for the benefits not for actually being gay homo sexuality is such a minority... that for the benefits that would come to homosexuals is out weighed by the negatives, so I stick to my above noted compromise to create equality.
    um cant you just marry some one for the benefits of marriage now? you don't have to be hetero or homo sexual to get married to some one of the other or the same gender

    not seeing the con hear'
    though your instance that we cant have gay marriage because it makes marriage to popular is interesting

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    Everything being said is debating what is more beneficial. the simple logical fact is you cant have reduced taxes and more government handouts and at the same time also have more taxes for the government and less government spending. So I will just again say the compromise would be taking away any benefits that heterosexuals have in order to provide equality. it may not be what you want to create equality but is something that I am wiling to compromise on to make sure homosexuals are equal.
    Except you fail to recognize that there exists a marriage penalty for some marriages that makes up for almost any money that other couples get from tax breaks in their marriage and that weddings and marriages themselves provide extra revenue to numerous businesses that then pay taxes for that. Married people tend to be more responsible than single people, meaning they are more likely to provide for themselves/each other, rather than relying on others to provide for them. Married people tend to buy larger ticket items together, such as houses rather than living in apartments. This means multiple more revenue streams for the state. The sexes/genders of those involved in the marriages doesn't change these facts.

    Those links I provided plus so many more explain these things much better and why your logic fails. You are thinking of this way too simplistically, likely because you don't (for whatever real reason) don't want same sex couples to get married and it really has nothing to do with this feigned concern for the economic or financial impact of allowing same sex marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    That door was always open. Marriages for green cards, or to get your opposite sex friend on your insurance policy, or additional military benefits. If people taking advantage of the system were such a concern, then marriage would have been dropped decades ago.

    The really funny thing is, if I don't get married I can claim a whole host of government benefits as a non working single mom. If I am married I have to claim my spouses income, and would not qualify. So, you know what? Have it your way. Ban me from marrying my fiancee, and we will both take advantage of EVERY SINGLE governmnet welfare benefit there is, since legally we are both single mothers.
    The funny thing is that some couple tried this (and in fact got away with it for years) up in Washington. The woman claimed she was a single mother renting part of a house (a rather large house) from this man (who was claimed to be just her landlord and nothing more) in Washington state. The state paid her rent and some utilities plus she got extras. The state eventually found out that she was in fact married to the man she was "renting" from and that they had defrauded the government out of millions (that I believe they have to pay back, I know they got into major trouble for it). Such a scam though would easily work if the couple simply doesn't get married. They could even set up private contracts to cover some of the stuff done through marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    That door was always open. Marriages for green cards, or to get your opposite sex friend on your insurance policy, or additional military benefits. If people taking advantage of the system were such a concern, then marriage would have been dropped decades ago.

    The really funny thing is, if I don't get married I can claim a whole host of government benefits as a non working single mom. If I am married I have to claim my spouses income, and would not qualify. So, you know what? Have it your way. Ban me from marrying my fiancee, and we will both take advantage of EVERY SINGLE governmnet welfare benefit there is, since legally we are both single mothers.
    your statement is exactly why I would take away benefits, people marry now days for the strict financial benefits. In a free society people should not be dependent on the government.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It's an interesting idea, but Zablocki is pretty tangential to marriage cases, as opposed to Loving and Griswold, which protected marriage and marital privacy with strict scrutiny, and Lawrence, which eschews the more common forms of scrutiny, but most resembles strict.

    Either way, I think the big thing that will be necessary to really protect SSM is for it to be afforded the same level of constitutional protections that heterosexual marriage enjoys. Rational basis simply won't cut it, and I think that will be the real moment when the debate comes to an end.
    I don't think there is a problem with rational basis covering it because there simply isn't a rational reason that restrictions on marriage based on sex/gender further any state interest at all, anywhere.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    your statement is exactly why I would take away benefits, people marry now days for the strict financial benefits. In a free society people should not be dependent on the government.
    People get the legal marriage mainly for the legal protections of marriage, not the financial benefits (not most anyway). But that isn't their main reason for getting married. The logic is flawed because it makes assumptions about others that really aren't (for the most part) true.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Except you fail to recognize that there exists a marriage penalty for some marriages that makes up for almost any money that other couples get from tax breaks in their marriage and that weddings and marriages themselves provide extra revenue to numerous businesses that then pay taxes for that. Married people tend to be more responsible than single people, meaning they are more likely to provide for themselves/each other, rather than relying on others to provide for them. Married people tend to buy larger ticket items together, such as houses rather than living in apartments. This means multiple more revenue streams for the state. The sexes/genders of those involved in the marriages doesn't change these facts.

    Those links I provided plus so many more explain these things much better and why your logic fails. You are thinking of this way too simplistically, likely because you don't (for whatever real reason) don't want same sex couples to get married and it really has nothing to do with this feigned concern for the economic or financial impact of allowing same sex marriage.
    well as was said earlier by someone on the other end of this debate is that gays can get "married" now but just reap no benefits. so all these things you are talking about is more of the mind set of being married no actual benefits. So without legalizing gay marriage you can still have all the benefits you stated and not have more loop holes to our system.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    well as was said earlier by someone on the other end of this debate is that gays can get "married" now but just reap no benefits.

    Actually that's not true, since we are talking about the legal aspects of "marriage" anyone that gets Civilly Married (i.e. those recognized as valid under the law) do receive the legal rights, responsibilities, and benefits of such a Civil Marriage. Some are denied these from the State, but all valid Civil Marriages are recognized by the Federal government now based on the jurisdiction of where the Civil Marriage was entered into.



    >>>>

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    well as was said earlier by someone on the other end of this debate is that gays can get "married" now but just reap no benefits. so all these things you are talking about is more of the mind set of being married no actual benefits. So without legalizing gay marriage you can still have all the benefits you stated and not have more loop holes to our system.
    If I can reap benefits from it though, so should same sex couples. And most of those benefits have no effect on you or the economy at all. How is it bad that a spouse can get time off work (by law) to be there for their spouse and pay their own respects should their spouse's relatives die? This is covered by marriage laws. How is it bad that a person is given entitlement to something they bought with their spouse should the spouse die without having to either pay taxes for that or be challenged over it by disgruntled family members who simply did not approve of the marriage?

    You still haven't shown how marriage does harm to our society, whereas I've provided evidence that shows that marriage not only benefits society as a whole, but even on a financial level. All you have given us is your opinion that seems to be based solely on a dislike of same sex marriage.

    Without legalizing same sex marriages, same sex couples are not treated equally under the law to opposite sex couples, and you can't show any legitimate reason why they shouldn't be. Speculation of possible future problems isn't proof or even evidence of any reason why same sex couples shouldn't be allowed to marry. You cannot show that there would be a heavy increase in people getting married to someone of the same sex purely for benefits.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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