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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

  1. #351
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The military currently roots out fraudulant marriages. They are one of the few government agencies that do (they may be one of the few that legally can given privacy rights). Male/female couples now hook up in marriage for bennies. They are generally referred to as "contract marriages". Now, it is rare because most people figure they either get BAH anyway (most are eligible by E-5 or E-6, depending on the branch) or they figure its not worth the risk since the person could always claim a legitimate marriage and take good portions of your money from a divorce. That little bit of BAH (which goes to your housing costs anyway, particularly if you weren't eligible for BAH prior to the marriage since most commands require E-5 and below that are married to live in housing and housing gets all of your BAH automatically) is nothing compared to being tied down in a marriage you have to pretend to. Plus, you can get into trouble for adultery if you are married in such a marriage and sleeping with other people and caught. Doing this sort of thing with someone of the same sex would be even more risky since they could easily look and see how many people knew the person or suspected they were gay (most didn't exactly hide it) prior to the marriage. It would look mighty suspicious.
    ty for the info

  2. #352
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    filing single
    10% on taxable income from $0 to $9,075, plus
    15% on taxable income over $9,075 to $36,900, plus
    25% on taxable income over $36,900 to $89,350, plus
    28% on taxable income over $89,350 to $186,350, plus
    33% on taxable income over $186,350 to $405,100, plus
    35% on taxable income over $405,100 to $406,750, plus
    39.6% on taxable income over $406,750.

    filing married
    10% on taxable income from $0 to $18,150, plus
    15% on taxable income over $18,150 to $73,800, plus
    25% on taxable income over $73,800 to $148,850, plus
    28% on taxable income over $148,850 to $226,850, plus
    33% on taxable income over $226,850 to $405,100, plus
    35% on taxable income over $405,100 to $457,600, plus
    39.6% on taxable income over $457,600.

    in the tax system you get penalized for being married 2 single people could file 406,749 x 2 people = $813,498 before they reached the top tax bracket where as it is only $457,600 when you file together so there is a disadvantage. The numbers at the bottom of the tax bracket are simply multiplied. 9,075 x 2 = $18,150. So the bottom of the tax bracket doesn't benefit at all and at the top of the tax bracket are at a disadvantage. We can argue any one point but this one is an obvious one chose 1 of your bullets and ill tell you why it isn't a benefit.
    Some people are penalized, some aren't. It is depends on the circumstances of the couple. I believe I read one where the major issues come when there are medical bills or other things that one has that the other doesn't and usually it involves both working where filing separately is better.

    Is Filing Taxes Jointly a Good Idea? - ABC News

    The Marriage Tax Penalty

    The other benefits though for many people generally make up for any tax penalties they face for their marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #353
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    One thing that is actually really bothering me about a lot of these SSM cases is that they are holding that SSM bans don't meet the rational basis test. They are NOT holding that SSM is subject to strict scrutiny the way that interracial marriage is under Loving v Virginia. It's a way of hedging their bets and it's preventing any of these decisions from having national implications. The case that truly secures equality for sexual orientations will have to extend greater constitutional protection than rational basis. These cases are obviously a step in the right direction, but some judge is going to have to address the level of constitutional scrutiny that SSM should have before this will be settled.
    See, I don't think after the Zablocki (I think it was this one) decision that they could rule it under strict scrutiny. Intermediate scrutiny sure, since the restriction is sex-based that means it should fall under intermediate scrutiny. But the SCOTUS even said that the Appeals Court in Zablocki got the decision wrong for striking it down under strict scrutiny but that the law itself didn't even meet the rational basis test anyway.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #354
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    1. The problem is that marriage has religious elements in general though not in a specific case. Perhaps the legal marriage should not have such but I think that is the underlying assumption. Only civil marriages conducted before jurist or justice of the peace have no religious element. Only civil marriages themselves would religion be considered meaningless.

    What I think is spurious is extra-constitutional reasonings to make such decisions.

    That which is forced on States was just a dependent clause to clarify what the dominant clause was talking about.

    That which the States are not willing to accept is just what is occurring in other States.
    No marriage only has religious elements to those who choose them. Religion does not own marriage. It started out as a social contract from the beginning, then in many places religion got involved. But no one in the US is required to have anything religious within their marriage. I don't. My marriage is religion free. My husband and I have our own beliefs and leave it at that. We had a Navy wife perform our wedding, which to us was a commitment ceremony to each other in front of our family and friends and a good party and family meetup time.

    There is nothing "extra-constitutional" about using the EPC in the case of marriage. It was written to protect people from state laws restricting the people unfairly or being used to treat people differently without any state interest being served in that unequal treatment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #355
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    •Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.

    first one is a hospital rule not a Federal law and not all hospitals adhere to those rules that is an assumption not a fact.

    •Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

    Just as you can assign someone other then your spouse to make medical decisions for you so can you also have a legal document that gives someone the ability to make medical decisions if you are incapable of doing so yourself. So marriage is not needed to be allowed to make these decisions.
    Having to draw up an extra legal document to name your mate as your medical decision maker is part of the issue here. Legal spouses do not have to do that, but two people of the same sex are unable to become legal spouses due solely to their relative sexes.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #356
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    @ Deuce

    there are not as many Pros as there are Cons simple fact and the second argument goes to if you agree with Gays then how can you make Polygamy illegal. as long as things are consensual then why have them illegal?
    You need to provide exactly what the "cons" of allowing same sex couples would be.

    Polygamy has absolutely no more chance of being legalized with same sex marriage legal than without. The same legal arguments exist for polygamists couples now as would exist with same sex couples allowed to marry. That is a slippery slope argument and invalid to actual cons that you may be able to associate with same sex couples being allowed to legally marry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    there can be a list just as you posted but here are the ones id like to debate.

    1) If Gay marriage were legalized then if a church were to deny a marriage because it was against there beliefs then they would lose there "nonprofit" business license.
    No they wouldn't. Name one Church that has lost their "nonprofit" status for any of the following:

    1. Refusing to marry an interracial couple,

    2. Refusing to marry an interfaith couple,

    3. Refusing to marry a couple where one (or both) of the participants were divirced against the doctrines of that Chruch,

    4. Since Same-sex Civil Marraige has existed for about 10-years in this country, one Church that has lost its "nonprofit" status for refusing to perform a religious ceremony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    2) In a military sense if you allowed gays to marry people would all be married to be allowed off post housing and BAH along with many other things which then needs to be changed and it couldn't be just changed for gays it would restructure the entire format of BaH and make it less accessible to the military as a whole.
    I'm not sure what you tried to say but, speaking as a miitary retiree... No changes are needed to BAH formats, get married, provide proof of a Civil Marriage and qualify.



    >>>>

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    filing single
    10% on taxable income from $0 to $9,075, plus
    15% on taxable income over $9,075 to $36,900, plus
    25% on taxable income over $36,900 to $89,350, plus
    28% on taxable income over $89,350 to $186,350, plus
    33% on taxable income over $186,350 to $405,100, plus
    35% on taxable income over $405,100 to $406,750, plus
    39.6% on taxable income over $406,750.

    filing married
    10% on taxable income from $0 to $18,150, plus
    15% on taxable income over $18,150 to $73,800, plus
    25% on taxable income over $73,800 to $148,850, plus
    28% on taxable income over $148,850 to $226,850, plus
    33% on taxable income over $226,850 to $405,100, plus
    35% on taxable income over $405,100 to $457,600, plus
    39.6% on taxable income over $457,600.

    in the tax system you get penalized for being married 2 single people could file 406,749 x 2 people = $813,498 before they reached the top tax bracket where as it is only $457,600 when you file together so there is a disadvantage. The numbers at the bottom of the tax bracket are simply multiplied. 9,075 x 2 = $18,150. So the bottom of the tax bracket doesn't benefit at all and at the top of the tax bracket are at a disadvantage. We can argue any one point but this one is an obvious one chose 1 of your bullets and ill tell you why it isn't a benefit.
    That's cool, that's cool. I'm for making it fair. And by that I mean, you also give up child tax credits, you give up discounted rates on things like mortgages, single people are not charged for schooling your children, etc. Done and done.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's cool, that's cool. I'm for making it fair. And by that I mean, you also give up child tax credits, you give up discounted rates on things like mortgages, single people are not charged for schooling your children, etc. Done and done.
    Well Politics is all about Compromise and tho you are saying that a gay person should have "equality" and gays try to stretch that into something as if they drink at a different water fountain or go to different schools. The simple fact and premise or this debate is that Gays want Federal and state financial benefits of being married. So equality meaning equal I would be more willing to remove all benefits that Heterosexual couples receive from the government then opening the door to allow anyone to abuse the system. Thus creating a equal state of being and also helping our financial state as Americans, due to our current debt.

    Doing this would help our economic crisis we have in america as well as creating and absolute state of "equality" that you speak of.

  10. #360
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Texashonor View Post
    Well Politics is all about Compromise and tho you are saying that a gay person should have "equality" and gays try to stretch that into something as if they drink at a different water fountain or go to different schools. The simple fact and premise or this debate is that Gays want Federal and state financial benefits of being married. So equality meaning equal I would be more willing to remove all benefits that Heterosexual couples receive from the government then opening the door to allow anyone to abuse the system. Thus creating a equal state of being and also helping our financial state as Americans, due to our current debt.

    Doing this would help our economic crisis we have in america as well as creating and absolute state of "equality" that you speak of.
    How would homosexuals abuse it any more than heterosexuals?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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