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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

  1. #291
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Procreation. Sodomy is not conducive to procreation.
    Procreation is not the purpose of marriage. We no understand what the problem with your argument is. At it's very core, it's foundation is incorrect.

    Btw... thank you for posting that particular comment of mine in your signature. With every post, it is a constant reminder of how wrong you are.
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  2. #292
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The question is whether the existing standard of marriage is between two people of different genders and maintaining that standard somehow violates the 14th Amendment now.
    how it a question individuals are forbidden to make a contract and receive rights based on gender where the contract and rights have nothing to do with gender

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I suspect that these decisions are more on ideological grounds than an interpretation of Constitutional Law. I'm not a Constitutional lawyer but I really do hope that these decisions are based on sound reasons and not just "we should go this way because its the 21st Century and we should do so because we think it is better". On the latter I am saying that a Judges version of the "lawyers disease" can occur. They make reasoning justifying their ruling and not being careful to see if it opens up abuses like I suggested.
    the ideological grounds are we should go this way because its what give are citizens equal protection under the law and that it increases liberty and fairness and are defense from the whims of others with out doing nay one any harm

    the people who oppose gay marriage are more likely to bring up time often in an appeal to tradition

    so im still not sure what kind of abuse your worried about

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    It is the assumption under common law and has been so since this country's beginnings under the Constitution until recently.






    I understand this point even though I am not married nor will I ever intend to get married.




    I am not the one who brought it up.



    Men and women are coequal under the law but that doesn't make them identical.



    I believe that is the point that in this country is a the point of contention.




    I understand your point of view. But there is a difference between the State deciding between the wrong sort (which it should not) and the wrong equipment (which is in my view open).


    Why

    The problem is that the society needs a little time to even know how to think on such things. Some States will have same sex marriages and they already do. The best argument that I can see is that marriage with respect to the State should be separated from the religious underpinnings that are apparently behind some of the opposition. And by some time I do not mean more than say a decade since that will be enough time to go thru any legal metaphysical reasoning that each State would make arguments pro or con. I really do not want gay marriage to be the next abortion rights struggle where people are seeking to use political means to force the issue one way or another.




    I do not trust government. And with respect to the Courts even the appearance of ideological motivations poisons its intended role as a means of Justice.
    see what I amen about bringing up time as if it was relevant coupled with an appeal to tradition

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    That the purpose of marriage is contradicted by same-sex relations.
    What YOU think the purpose of marriage is is contradicted by same sex relations. No one gives a **** what your holy book has to say about it. If we let your bible decide, we'd have all kinds of crazy ass marriages:



    All of these are perfectly acceptable. But if a man marries a man or a woman marries a woman, then it gets disgusting! Ha!
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I guess that depends on your definition of "manage." I work where I choose to work. I eat what I choose to eat. I don't have a bed time. I am friends with the people I want to be friends with.

    But they also dictate that I must periodically prove I am safely able to fly an aircraft so that I don't kill my passengers, so I guess they're overly intrusive.
    Exactly, it does all depend on how one looks at. Personally as a child of the 1950's, I would like to return to that society. It was far from perfect, we had more than our share of problems, but society was not near a violent, we left our doors to the house unlocked, to our cars when we went to town, and Washington D.C. might was well have been on Mars for all the effect they had on us. But to each his own.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    It is the assumption under common law and has been so since this country's beginnings under the Constitution until recently.
    Irrelevant.
    I understand this point even though I am not married nor will I ever intend to get married.
    No you don't, because you called it an issue of sexual identity.
    I am not the one who brought it up.
    You discussed it.
    Men and women are coequal under the law but that doesn't make them identical.
    A distinction of gender is still being made under the law.
    I believe that is the point that in this country is a the point of contention.
    Equal protection on the basis of gender is not a point of contention.
    I understand your point of view. But there is a difference between the State deciding between the wrong sort (which it should not) and the wrong equipment (which is in my view open).
    What do you mean "wrong equipment" and "wrong sort?"

    The problem is that the society needs a little time to even know how to think on such things. Some States will have same sex marriages and they already do. The best argument that I can see is that marriage with respect to the State should be separated from the religious underpinnings that are apparently behind some of the opposition. And by some time I do not mean more than say a decade since that will be enough time to go thru any legal metaphysical reasoning that each State would make arguments pro or con. I really do not want gay marriage to be the next abortion rights struggle where people are seeking to use political means to force the issue one way or another.
    I see no reason to wait until people are comfortable with civil rights.
    Marriage with respect to the state is separated from the religious underpinnings. The government doesn't care whether or not you got married in a church or a 7-11.
    I do not trust government. And with respect to the Courts even the appearance of ideological motivations poisons its intended role as a means of Justice.
    Actions are more important than appearances. Reality is more important than opinion. People are being discriminated against and it needs to stop.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Exactly, it does all depend on how one looks at. Personally as a child of the 1950's, I would like to return to that society. It was far from perfect, we had more than our share of problems, but society was not near a violent, we left our doors to the house unlocked, to our cars when we went to town, and Washington D.C. might was well have been on Mars for all the effect they had on us. But to each his own.
    The 1950s was ****ed up. Your childhood memories seem nicer because you were a child at the time. You weren't aware of how ****ed up things were because children don't know these things.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    That is absolutely true. The main issue is where the Rights of the People are and the Powers of the State are. The set up that we have is a sort of Game with subtle rules and I do not trust the State much farther than I trust the Federal part of government. That said since determining what is considered valid for marriage is at the State level is very much an established given. I do not trust what I see is a arbitrary rulings on the Federal Courts against the State laws here.
    Then you are simply in denial of the obvious. The state has to be able to justify restrictions in its laws that show people being treated differently, unequal. That is the EPC of the 14th, and it has been extended to laws when it comes to marriage and it has included all sorts of characteristics used to determine restrictions, many times with those things being struck down (Turner v Safley, Zablocki v Redhail, and Loving v VA). Those are all cases where state marriage restrictions were struck down as unconstitutional because the state was unable to show how those restrictions actually further any state interest. Currently, they cannot show how restricting marriage based on sex/gender furthers any legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I tend to think marriage in more metaphysical terms than those of contract law. Entering into contracts is a fundamental right so marriage would follow there.



    Keep in mind the Supreme Court ruling was a split decision by ideological Judges. Because of that I do not trust the Courts as guarantors of Rights here. Since the Judges who are ruling on behalf of gay marriage seem to be ideological I cannot assume that this is a good ground on the issue so I worry.


    I would have to agree that the government and marriage may have to be separated eventually. I do not care if same sex marriage exists (or not) I personally do not intend to marry myself and my only concern in this is that the Court uses good reasoning if they determine that the Power of the State must be tempered in the case of gay marriage. And I do not hate gay people.
    The part of marriage we are discussing is contract law. Same sex couples can already have the metaphysical/personal marriage. The contract is what is being denied to them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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