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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Human nature is evil

    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.

    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    Last edited by digsbe; 02-14-14 at 01:39 AM.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil

    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.

    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    Amen.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil

    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.
    Acceptable and moral are subjective and therefore irrelevant. If you mean "normal" in the sense of statistics, then lots of things aren't normal. If you mean it differently, then it also is irrelevant. In fact, as soon as you used the word "should" you placed your comments in the realm of subjectivity. Oh, and dysfunctional and unnatural have also been shown to be incorrect.

    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    Equal rights is not allowing the tyranny of the majority to oppress the minority. Our Constitution is built on concepts like that and it is the judiciary's job to manage that... as they did in this case.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    In accordance with the nature of a thing.
    Congratz on an impossibly vague, circular definition. It does not even work for you. Homosexuality has been around since at least the dawn of man, so I think you could easily say it fits in as part of the nature of things. Many animal species engage in homosexual behavior, so such behavior is clearly found in nature and "in accordance with the nature of things".

    That definition fails you on multiple levels, care to try again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil
    First of all, opinion, nothing more. And a very pessimistic view of humanity you got there.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.
    Morals are subjective. No one is asking for your personal approval of their relationships. And normal is relative. Acceptance isn't even being asked for.

    As far as homosexuality goes, it is natural and in no way "dysfunctional". It works just fine and in no way inhibits a species growth/evolution. And sex organs are used for many purposes. Or have you forgotten that every man's sex organ is also used to dispel waste from the body?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    Equal rights has never been about "respecting the right of voters", ever. In fact that is the complete opposite purpose of the 14th Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    What sources before the last two hundred years consider sodomy as natural?
    What source before the last 200 years considered owning a gun natural? And yet that is a right.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Acceptable and moral are subjective and therefore irrelevant. If you mean "normal" in the sense of statistics, then lots of things aren't normal. If you mean it differently, then it also is irrelevant. In fact, as soon as you used the word "should" you placed your comments in the realm of subjectivity. Oh, and dysfunctional and unnatural have also been shown to be incorrect.
    Morals are not subjective when it comes to death and judgement and absolute right and wrong. When it comes to democracy it is relevant as well with the morals of others having weight when it comes to "subjectivity" or right and wrong for a population. Show me how dysfunctional and unnatural from a biological standpoint are incorrect. We know biologically that sex organs exist for reproduction. We know that, at least in humans, the penis and vagina are actually optomized to function together and there are significant health risks behind gay sex practices that are not natural for those parts of the body (primarily male on male anal sex).
    Equal rights is not allowing the tyranny of the majority to oppress the minority. Our Constitution is built on concepts like that and it is the judiciary's job to manage that... as they did in this case.
    And what about oppressing the voters of VA that supported upholding the definition of marriage that was widely held as the default and legal definition for decades? Anyone can claim they are being oppressed, our Constitution, as written, doesn't appear to have specific verbiage extending to sexuality, sex practices as things on par with gender, religion and race. To try and apply it as such is wrong.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What source before the last 200 years considered owning a gun natural? And yet that is a right.
    What source considered it unnatural?

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil

    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.

    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.

    there is no "grave" injustice here
    there is no tyranny here thats just silly an unsupportable
    there are no equal rights of the
    the equal rights of the voters are intact

    Federal judge Heyburn wrote, Protecting tradition, no matter how ancient or deeply held, was not good enough of defense for laws that create different rules for different groups of people.
    "For years, many states had a tradition of segregation and even articulated reasons why it created a better, more stable society," "Similarly, many states deprived women of their equal rights under the law, believing this to properly preserve our traditions. In time, even the most strident supporters of these views understood that they could not enforce their particular moral views to the detriment of another's constitutional rights. Here as well, sometime in the not too distant future, the same understanding will come to pass."


    Federal Judge Arenda L. Wright Allen
    Wright Allen opened her decision with a quote from Mildred Loving, who was at the center of the Virginia case that the Supreme Court used in 1967 to strike down laws banning interracial marriage.
    “Tradition is revered in the Commonwealth, and often rightly so. However, tradition alone cannot justify denying same-sex couples the right to marry any more than it could justify Virginia’s ban on interracial marriage.”
    Gay and lesbian individuals share the same capacity as heterosexual individuals to form, preserve and celebrate loving, intimate and lasting relationships,” “Such relationships are created through the exercise of sacred, personal choices — choices, like the choices made by every other citizen, that must be free from unwarranted government interference.Laws excluding gay men and lesbians from marriage violate personal freedom, are an unnecessary government intrusion, and cause serious harm,”

    “The legitimate purposes proffered by the Proponents for the challenged laws—to promote conformity to the traditions and heritage of a majority of Virginia’s citizens, to perpetuate a generally-recognized deference to the state’s will pertaining to domestic relations laws, and, finally, to endorse “responsible procreation”—share no rational link with Virginia Marriage Laws being challenged,” the judge wrote: “The goal and the result of this legislation is to deprive Virginia’s gay and lesbian citizens of the opportunity and right to choose to celebrate, in marriage, a loving, rewarding, monogamous relationship with a partner to whom they are committed for life. These results occur without furthering any legitimate state purpose.”


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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil

    Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point.
    Straw man Digsbe. No one has claimed that because it is found in nature it is normal, moral or acceptable. Only that it is natural. The argument is used to counter those who claim homosexual acts are unnatural.


    I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    So is it your opinion that majority rules in all cases? I can think of many instances when you would disapprove of that. Is it not the job of the court to, in part, protect people from having their rights taken away by the majority?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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