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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

  1. #281
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Interracial marriage was a new idea.
    The marriage of two people of different groups (one or both who are hated by the other) is nearly timeless. At least as old as marriage itself.


    Literally the opposite of the truth. Loving v. Virginia literally declared marriage to be a fundamental right.
    If so then I am wrong but I think of marriage on more of a metaphysical level that one of Rights or even under contract law.

    Equal protection is not a universal magic bullet. The state can still uphold unequal protection when an important enough interest exists in doing so. With children, preventing them from entering permanent legal contracts is a pretty clear interest - children lack the emotional and intellectual capacity to make such decisions in their own best interests, or anyone else's for that matter
    .

    I do not think that that will happen either especially since most people recognize that children are not adults and can not be held to a standard of that of an adult. But I do worry about unforeseen issues if the case law is not set up properly. Multiple marriage is an example. We do not even have a means on making determinations of degree of responsibility if the case law forced that issue forward.


    Such an interest does not exist in banning same-sex marriage. There are certainly state interests in the existence of marriage, and the promotion of stable families, procreation, and all that jazz that goes with marriage. But the banning of same-sex marriages does not in any way further any of those interests, nor does same-sex marriage cause any sort of demonstrable harm. Therefore same-sex marriage bans do not pass the test of equal protection, but the age requirement does pass the test of equal protection. Marrying animals and furniture are just stupid, desperate diversions from real discuss. Animals and furniture aren't people, they don't have rights.
    This is a good argument for its recognition. With respect to your comment on furniture I would point out in the not too distant future when we have sentient AI someone may want to marry a AI insted of another human and that issue would have to be addressed similarity at that time.
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  2. #282
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    The Supreme Court has ruled about 14 times that marriage is a fundamental right. Whether you agree with that is irrelevant, it is the supreme law of the land. Now, considering it's a fundamental right, a state does not have the right to deny it to certain people while granting it to others. That is discrimination, plain and simple, and it has no place in a free society. All citizens should be equal under the law. I don't think that's too extreme of a concept.
    I tend to think marriage in more metaphysical terms than those of contract law. Entering into contracts is a fundamental right so marriage would follow there.

    I think your Illinois gun example is actually perfect. The state was violating its citizens rights, so the Supreme Court came in and overruled it, which is precisely what is happening right now with SSM. Personally I don't think marriage should have anything to do with the government whatsoever, but for some reason it is, and as long as it is, the government can not choose to whom it doles out that right.
    Keep in mind the Supreme Court ruling was a split decision by ideological Judges. Because of that I do not trust the Courts as guarantors of Rights here. Since the Judges who are ruling on behalf of gay marriage seem to be ideological I cannot assume that this is a good ground on the issue so I worry.

    Bahahahahahah! You're so furious that they're giving gays equal rights that you're calling for their heads. Jesus ****ing christ you must really hate gays.
    I would have to agree that the government and marriage may have to be separated eventually. I do not care if same sex marriage exists (or not) I personally do not intend to marry myself and my only concern in this is that the Court uses good reasoning if they determine that the Power of the State must be tempered in the case of gay marriage. And I do not hate gay people.
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  3. #283
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


    Could you help me out here with a couple of things:

    1. Where in Section 1 of the 14th is race "explicitly" mentioned as a requirement to be eligible for equal protection under the law?

    2. Since Section 1 does identify "All persons", "citizens", and "any person" - why do homosexuals not qualify as "a person" or "a citizen"?



    >>>>
    Memory is faulty and since I do not focus on this issue very much I misremembered what the Constitution does say on this. My main concern is if we are going to have gay marriage being ruled as a right by the Courts that the Courts are careful in doing so and to avoid any ideological filters that they may now have so we do not have any surprises in the future.
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  4. #284
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It does violate the 14th amendment. A gender-based distinction (limiting a contract to a male and a female) requires an "important state interest" be served and that the measure is "substantially related" to that interest.




    The rulings are based on sound reasons. You should read them.
    I will try when I have time but I worry when I see anything that looks ideological being done by the Courts.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    how do you separate gay marriage from gender? and equal protection for all citizens is established so any law that violates it is unconstitutional

    what loop holes would let you endanger or exploit children if you alow gay marriage do to the that gay marriage is an identical situation and institution to heterosexual marriages that we allow?
    hmm needs work hears a start

    what loop holes would let you endanger or exploit children if you allow gay marriage, do to the fact, that gay marriage is an identical situation and institution to heterosexual marriages that we allow?

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    That the purpose of marriage is contradicted by same-sex relations.
    how? people don't even get married for any 1 reason

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Procreation. Sodomy is not conducive to procreation.
    and so marriage with any 1 who is infertile contradicts the purpose of marriage?

    and should not be allowed?

    doesn't seem like you need to be married to have kids might help with raising them

    but then infertile couples can raise kids and some times 1 of them is not infertile themselves and has had a child already who can benefit from marriage

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Show a reliable source.



    Should the US completely rearrange every aspect of its government? Why not?
    um ending the discrimination against same sex couples would not be an example of that

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It wouldn't be illegal, if not for the government making it illegal.

    Just WOW!
    I agree making something illegal just because you want it to be illegal is ridiculous

  10. #290
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    How can one make this statement? Most of our progress in the realm of social law has come through a public discussion of what should be considered moral and commonly accepted in modern societies. It's simple enough to make the argument for why SSM falls into these categories and certainly preferable to dismissing the process altogether.
    You missed context.
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