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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

  1. #181
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The prohibitions on mixed race marriages was Un-Constitutional since the Constitution requires equal protection with regard to race. The same with respect to the Jim Crow laws.

    weird you addressed nothing that was actually said and the complete failures of your previous post still exist.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    States do not determine what Rights people have. Rights are inherent. Marriage is a sort of contract and contracts involve State Power and it is within State Power to determine what is a valid marriage. Keep in mind that gay marriage at least in the United States is a new thing and I think the Courts are going too quickly on this. I do think that States will have to recognize the legitimacy of married gay couples from other States and this will be what determines whether most States will eventually adopt it.

    With respect on my being Libertarian, I do not oppose gay marriage but for now the States do have the authority rule it out unless we have an Amendment that says otherwise. I should also point out that States such as Illinois had undue restrictions against gun ownership even though the Constitution explicitly says that the Citizens have a right to own and bear them. I WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO GIVE THE COURTS A PASS ON THIS IF THEY WOULD UPHOLD THE BILL OF RIGHTS AND I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE FIFTHS JUST COMPENSATION FOR TAKING PROPERTY THAT WAS WEAKENED BY THE COURTS.
    Man has right to contract and the government may not discriminate. The Marriage License is government issued and recognized contract. It requires additional force to forbid same sex couples from entering the contract, and if that force is not response to the violation of rights of others, it is rarely legitimate.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Human nature is evil Just because something appears in nature doesn't mean it should be approved of or used in defense of it being "normal" or "moral" or even "acceptable." As far as biology and sex goes, homosexuality is dysfunctional and "unnatural" in how those sex organs are being used. But that's besides the point. I sincerely hope this gets struck down. It is a grave injustice to the voters of VA to have their attorney general refuse to defend state laws and the state constitution in court and also have their ability to uphold traditional marriage, which has been the defacto marriage position for many many years, essentially removed largely due to a progressive judicial opinion and changes in public opinion. I'm happy for the gays in VA that may be able to get married and I support SSM, but not through this type of judicial tyranny and lack of legal representation for those on the other side. Equal rights is not imposing a new definition of marriage upon every state due to new social changes and acceptances of certain sex practices or sexual relationships. Equal rights is respecting the rights of voters who disagree and allowing them to govern as well. The 14th amendment should not extend to sexuality or personal sex choices/relationships unless amended.
    You have used this argument before, it gets the same response- that sex organs are not always used for the prime function isn't an issue. Young bulls mount each other, cows even mount other cows, you have to be very arbitrary on where you draw the 'biological natural' line.

    There is no NEW definition of marriage but rather expanding the definition by dropping the innie/outie ahhhh coupling to the definition.

    There is no judicial tyranny as the Judges are reading the Constitution and doing their job.

    Hetro marriage is in no way diminished by expanding marriage to same sex couples. My wife and I lose nothing by Bob and Hank getting hitched.

    No one is saying hetros can't govern- whatever that means- but they can't impose their beliefs on others in violation of the Constitution, and this is in far more categories other than marriage.

    Wanting a Constitutional amendment alteration is just a stall tactic, the 14th works just fine to measure the progress this country has made and will continue to do so. It is reactionary folly to try and fossilize our national lifestyle and not advance.

    Bottom line is no one is losing any rights, someone being paid with taxpayer money works for ALL Americans, not just the ones who's lifestyle you approve of.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    States establish the definition of marriage when the Courts decide that the definition the State uses is "Un-Constitutional" then yes they do make a definition of marriage. Previously we did have States who prohibited mixed race marriages and they were Unconstitutioal (no quote marks) since the Constitution explicitly requires equal protection with respect to race so in that instance the States are prohibited to transgress there. There is no explicit requirement with respect to sexual idenity. I'm sorry this is somthing that the culture will have to deal with and it will probably take a couple of generations in some States to resolve.




    I was just responding to your comment.

    .



    Yes, but there is no need to test whether is a person has a sexual slant for marriage.




    Unless there is a specific prohibition in the Constitution the States can make any requirement for marriage even things like income if they chose. I would not favor any restriction beyond prohibiting marriage between second dgree or closer, multiple partners, 17 or older, and be mentally competent. The fact that both partners must consent is implied.



    The prohibitions on mixed race marriages was Un-Constitutional since the Constitution requires equal protection with regard to race. The same with respect to the Jim Crow laws.





    The problem is that this is not a discrimination a against a particular group of people treating them differently. The laws are not specifiably requiring that gay people cannot have the same access that every one else does but that States do have the Power to decide what marriage is. Marriage from the beginning of this country was between two people and between one man and one woman. Having marriage between two of the same gender is a change (and is new) and there is on support in the Constitution requiring this bo be so.




    The Constitution of the United States require that equal protection under the law with respect to race. It would Un-Cnstitutional and I would be against it snce I do believe it violates the fundamental Rights of those who were targeted.



    That is correct but the question is whether the Courts can argue that it is Un-Constitutional to do so. My view is it cannot be argued under the Constitution that gay marriage is a Right that supersedes the Power of the States to decide what is allowable under the law the State's Legislature decides at a given time.





    States do not determine what Rights people have. Rights are inherent. Marriage is a sort of contract and contracts involve State Power and it is within State Power to determine what is a valid marriage. Keep in mind that gay marriage at least in the United States is a new thing and I think the Courts are going too quickly on this. I do think that States will have to recognize the legitimacy of married gay couples from other States and this will be what determines whether most States will eventually adopt it.

    With respect on my being Libertarian, I do not oppose gay marriage but for now the States do have the authority rule it out unless we have an Amendment that says otherwise. I should also point out that States such as Illinois had undue restrictions against gun ownership even though the Constitution explicitly says that the Citizens have a right to own and bear them. I WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO GIVE THE COURTS A PASS ON THIS IF THEY WOULD UPHOLD THE BILL OF RIGHTS AND I'M ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE FIFTHS JUST COMPENSATION FOR TAKING PROPERTY THAT WAS WEAKENED BY THE COURTS.
    hears the bits that makes it unconstitutional to put a price tag on marriage to ban marriage based on race or to ban marriage based on gender

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Equal protection under the law requires it.
    The problem is that gay marriage is a new idea and the Courts should at least hold off until there has been enough time has past where States have made laws on this and with the reasoning those laws were enacted. There is noting explicit in the Constitution that would make gay marriage a Right. Technically marriage is not a Right at all. Loving vs Virgina was delivered not due to a Right of marriage but due to a prohibition of a violation of equal protection on account of race. Also the question is does States have the Power to make laws respecting an establishment marriage or not?

    States forbid marriage to children for example. And there are people who want children to have the equal rights as adults. By the same reasoning States could be required to grant marriages to children also. This is an extreme example but I am thinking hypothetically here.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The problem is that gay marriage is a new idea and the Courts should at least hold off until there has been enough time has past where States have made laws on this and with the reasoning those laws were enacted. There is noting explicit in the Constitution that would make gay marriage a Right. Technically marriage is not a Right at all. Loving vs Virgina was delivered not due to a Right of marriage but due to a prohibition of a violation of equal protection on account of race. Also the question is does States have the Power to make laws respecting an establishment marriage or not?

    States forbid marriage to children for example. And there are people who want children to have the equal rights as adults. By the same reasoning States could be required to grant marriages to children also. This is an extreme example but I am thinking hypothetically here.
    Marriage is not a right, but contract is. And when Government usurped marriage and invented the Marriage License, it made it contract. The Government cannot discriminate.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Man has right to contract and the government may not discriminate. The Marriage License is government issued and recognized contract. It requires additional force to forbid same sex couples from entering the contract, and if that force is not response to the violation of rights of others, it is rarely legitimate.
    I don't quite know what you mean by the bolded sentence.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The problem is that gay marriage is a new idea and the Courts should at least hold off until there has been enough time has past where States have made laws on this and with the reasoning those laws were enacted. There is noting explicit in the Constitution that would make gay marriage a Right. Technically marriage is not a Right at all. Loving vs Virgina was delivered not due to a Right of marriage but due to a prohibition of a violation of equal protection on account of race. Also the question is does States have the Power to make laws respecting an establishment marriage or not?

    States forbid marriage to children for example. And there are people who want children to have the equal rights as adults. By the same reasoning States could be required to grant marriages to children also. This is an extreme example but I am thinking hypothetically here.
    violating equal protection on account of gender is not any more constitutional

    letting kids marry is not givng them equl rights sice then in danger of being unable to detmine whats best for them and form being exploted

    this


    Marriage is a civil contract, and in that character alone is dealt with by the municipal law. The same right to make a contract as is enjoyed by white citizens, means the right to make any contract which a white citizen may make.

    applies to same sex marriage along gender

    if a man and women both meet the requirements to marry a man or a woman then men and women should be free to make that same contract

    theirs no difference in the marriage contract to a man or women based on either race or gender

    Marriage is a civil contract, and in that character alone is dealt with by the municipal law. The same right to make a contract as is enjoyed by male citizens, means the right to make any contract which a male citizen may make.


    Marriage is a civil contract, and in that character alone is dealt with by the municipal law. The same right to make a contract as is enjoyed by female citizens,
    means the right to make any contract which a female citizen may make.

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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    hears the bits that makes it unconstitutional to put a price tag on marriage to ban marriage based on race or to ban marriage based on gender

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    I understand then the issue is that States do not have the Power to pass laws determining what would constitute a valid marriage.
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    Re: Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    and another one
    and another one
    and another one bites the dust

    even thought this one was stayed (which is awesome in itself because it will go to SCOTUS) the two court cases by FEDERAL judge have BIG TIME verbiage in them. not just saying equality or equal rights or unfair discrimination but UNCONSTITUTIONAL and VIOLATES THE 14th AMENDMENT

    HUGE steps
    this is awesome equal rights is coming and coming soon!!!!!



    link
    Federal Judge Rules Va. Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional | NBC4 Washington

    back-up links:
    Judge: Va. Same-Sex Marriage Ban Unconstitutional - ABC News
    Virginia judge strikes down gay marriage ban
    Judge rules VA gay marriage ban unconstitutional - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News
    Federal judge declares Virginia's ban on same-sex marriage unconstitutional | Fox News
    Just shows what a lousy job the supreme court did. This should be settled law. This is a tremendous waste of time and money to have to go through this in very state. Does anyone think that a federal court will ever come to a different conclusion?

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