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Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinner

Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
Helped those who got full time. These are people who needed it.

There is no logical reason for you laying off. But by all means join me in arguing insurance should be removed for employment. We'd spend less and have better access for all with a single payer.
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Again, that doesnt help MY employees, who were happy with their job situation, but now are not because the govt told their employee they had to effectively pay them more. Im not arguing for or against insurance being removed for employment. Im arguing govt should stay out of it. If you want single payer, go ahead and do it and pay for it yourself. Im not stopping you. Just dont make me enroll or pay for it. Oh, but then you couldnt afford it, could you? Too many poor people not paying in.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

jonny5 said:
Again, that doesnt help MY employees, who were happy with their job situation, but now are not because the govt told their employee they had to effectively pay them more. Im not arguing for or against insurance being removed for employment. Im arguing govt should stay out of it. If you want single payer, go ahead and do it and pay for it yourself. Im not stopping you. Just dont make me enroll or pay for it. Oh, but then you couldnt afford it, could you? Too many poor people not paying in.
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If you're laying off, you do so because you want to. Other companies have found other ways. There is no logical need to lay off.

Now, how much poor pay? How will they pay it? At least when we demonize they rich, they have a lobbying group that will fight for them. The poor can't speak up that much. And your employees likely can't speak freely, fir fear of losing work. The working poor needs this more than anyone.

"Not enough companies are negatively impacted, and those that are are adjusting in other ways," said Zandi.

Economists split over Obamacare's impact on jobs - Sep. 30, 2013
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
If you're laying off, you do so because you want to. Other companies have found other ways. There is no logical need to lay off.

Now, how much poor pay? How will they pay it? At least when we demonize they rich, they have a lobbying group that will fight for them. The poor can't speak up that much. And your employees likely can't speak freely, fir fear of losing work. The working poor needs this more than anyone.

"Not enough companies are negatively impacted, and those that are are adjusting in other ways," said Zandi.

Economists split over Obamacare's impact on jobs - Sep. 30, 2013
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Again, that doesnt help MY employees. Thats the whole point here. Govt is treating everyone like a group. My employees were happy, now they arent, because of govt.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

jonny5 said:
Again, that doesnt help MY employees. Thats the whole point here. Govt is treating everyone like a group. My employees were happy, now they arent, because of govt.
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You should help your employees. No one and nothing is making you do anything to them.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
Oh, I'm arguing it's not usual.

Run more smoothly for some, but create more conflict for others. I'm not arguing against constraints. I'm arguing against roles, specifically gender roles. Though I can't think of any roles that wouldn't create conflict when faced with reality.
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I remember when 'sensitive' men were the fashion and women were drawn to them until the fashion eventually slowed down. Real women will be drawn to real men, and vice versa, and trying to redefine the sexes is a foolish and losing game. Both sexes of the generation who got caught up in that idea are now realizing the error of their ways.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Grant said:
I remember when 'sensitive' men were the fashion and women were drawn to them until the fashion eventually slowed down. Real women will be drawn to real men, and vice versa, and trying to redefine the sexes is a foolish and losing game. Both sexes of the generation who got caught up in that idea are now realizing the error of their ways.
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Redefine? This implies we were ever defined. I think just being is enough for both men and women.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
You heard the testimony. You got a written account and heard him on video. Yet you call him wrong and you right? It's his report. Who does what you are doing? Think partisan. Some not interested in the truth. Maybe?
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No Joe....I don't know...I don't have the background to know.....Neither do you. What I am saying, maybe clumsily, is that although I respect Elmendorf [sic] as far as that goes, the CBO can only look at things through the lens of parameters that they are given to specifically look at...They are not there to give a complete, and comprehensive view, but rather to offer conclusions based on a few things....This is why in most cases they are wildly off in their estimates.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
No Joe....I don't know...I don't have the background to know.....Neither do you. What I am saying, maybe clumsily, is that although I respect Elmendorf [sic] as far as that goes, the CBO can only look at things through the lens of parameters that they are given to specifically look at...They are not there to give a complete, and comprehensive view, but rather to offer conclusions based on a few things....This is why in most cases they are wildly off in their estimates.
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But you have to go with the evidence you have, or in this case don't have. No study, no valid report or study, shows people being laid off or fired due to reform. To dispute the person who presented the report, it's proper to have some support. You liked the CBO when you thought it said what you wanted it to say. Too much is tackled this way. At some point you have to consider that you're wrong in what you think is happening.

Btw, where I work, we just got news our premiums will be even lower than estimated earlier. The lowest increase in decades will now be even lower. Add to it that we get to move some part time employees to full time, we're not hurting here. I honestly ask you to investigate how states are reacting. You'll find, I believe, some states are doing well and others not. This implies that the law isn't the issue as much as states doing a poor job.

Also, as a people we should consider removing healthcare from employment. You know his I think that should be done.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
But you have to go with the evidence you have, or in this case don't have. No study, no valid report or study, shows people being laid off or fired due to reform. To dispute the person who presented the report, it's proper to have some support. You liked the CBO when you thought it said what you wanted it to say. Too much is tackled this way. At some point you have to consider that you're wrong in what you think is happening.

Btw, where I work, we just got news our premiums will be even lower than estimated earlier. The lowest increase in decades will now be even lower. Add to it that we get to move some part time employees to full time, we're not hurting here. I honestly ask you to investigate how states are reacting. You'll find, I believe, some states are doing well and others not. This implies that the law isn't the issue as much as states doing a poor job.

Also, as a people we should consider removing healthcare from employment. You know his I think that should be done.
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How many have actually paid for their plans Joe, and why is that a secret?
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
How many have actually paid for their plans Joe, and why is that a secret?
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Not sure it is a secret. I haven't looked. But you guys sure leap to conspiracies. It's kind of funny to watch.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
Not sure it is a secret. I haven't looked. But you guys sure leap to conspiracies. It's kind of funny to watch.
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Then post that number
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
Then post that number
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You want me to look for your evidence? :lamo:lamo:lamo
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
You want me to look for your evidence? :lamo:lamo:lamo
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You can't post it because they won't release it...now why would that be? Hmmmmm.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
You can't post it because they won't release it...now why would that be? Hmmmmm.
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It has finished yet?
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
It has finished yet?
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Are you saying that the numbers are not known by the administration?
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
Are you saying that the numbers are not known by the administration?
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no. But I am saying that it's a work in progress. And I can find no of consequence asking for them. I'd start with your congress critter if I were you.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
I'm talking about the stupid meme that people will now have time to cook dinner, or paint paintings, or play golf, or what ever....It's dumb, and highly insulting to those in the country today that are working as hard as they can to put food on the table, and keep the roof over their heads....We can play semantics with the demo talking point all we want, but it's not a good idea in my opinion to express an opinion that it really is 'no big deal' that people are struggling....Or ignoring that altogether.
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They need to get their heads out of their asses, and join the rest of the liberals who think work is for idiots. Why work when you can paint a Mona Lisa?
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
no. But I am saying that it's a work in progress. And I can find no of consequence asking for them. I'd start with your congress critter if I were you.
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Yep, I have. And the response is that they would love to have the numbers, but HHS won't release them...But now you are starting to deflect....

I asked if the numbers are not known by the administration, and your answer was "No", so, if they do know them, and I believe they do, and they have been asked what they are, and refuse to give them, why would they withhold them? The only reason I can think of is that they are dismal.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

American said:
They need to get their heads out of their asses, and join the rest of the liberals who think work is for idiots. Why work when you can paint a Mona Lisa?
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I tell ya, I have never heard such twisting, and stretching to get to a conclusion like this as I have from these liars.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

j-mac said:
I tell ya, I have never heard such twisting, and stretching to get to a conclusion like this as I have from these liars.
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What they have now done is admitted what they have felt all along from the beginning of the Great Society, but now they feel they have the majority of the country behind this way of thinking. So now they admit openly that the well-to-do and the majority should work so that the downtrodden and the disadvantaged victims of society can sit back and live off of those that produce..............to fulfill the social justice agenda. There is only one way to interpret such a mindset. The downtrodden and disadvantaged class shouldn't have to earn their pursuit of happiness, but be given it as a right in America. It fits in perfectly with all the other social beliefs they have about not grading students on an A-F scale, because it hurts their self-esteem, giving out trophies for participation and other such things to minimize the differences between those that work for their achievements and those that don't. The achievers should pay so those that don't artificially achieve the ability to "paint paintings, sculped statues " and other such things associated with those who have achieved a lifestyle through hard work.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

American said:
What they have now done is admitted what they have felt all along from the beginning of the Great Society, but now they feel they have the majority of the country behind this way of thinking. So now they admit openly that the well-to-do and the majority should work so that the downtrodden and the disadvantaged victims of society can sit back and live off of those that produce..............to fulfill the social justice agenda. There is only one way to interpret such a mindset. The downtrodden and disadvantaged class shouldn't have to earn their pursuit of happiness, but be given it as a right in America. It fits in perfectly with all the other social beliefs they have about not grading students on an A-F scale, because it hurts their self-esteem, giving out trophies for participation and other such things to minimize the differences between those that work for their achievements and those that don't. The achievers should pay so those that don't artificially achieve the ability to "paint paintings, sculped statues " and other such things associated with those who have achieved a lifestyle through hard work.
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And while all this is going on they will claim the middle class is shrinking when, of course, that is the inevitable result of these policies. The political class is now openly aligning themselves to the upper classes and celebrities, with the talk of greater equality, opportunities and freedoms only heard during election campaigns.
 
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Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Grant said:
And while all this is going on they will claim the middle class is shrinking when, of course, that is the inevitable result of these policies. The political class is now openly aligning themselves to the upper classes and celebrities, with the talk of greater equality, opportunities and freedoms only heard during election campaigns.
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It was shrinking long before these policies. How far back will you guys reach to blame Obama. It seems everything that was happening is now his fault and due to reform. Can't you see any flaw in that reasoning?
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

American said:
What they have now done is admitted what they have felt all along from the beginning of the Great Society, but now they feel they have the majority of the country behind this way of thinking. So now they admit openly that the well-to-do and the majority should work so that the downtrodden and the disadvantaged victims of society can sit back and live off of those that produce..............to fulfill the social justice agenda. There is only one way to interpret such a mindset. The downtrodden and disadvantaged class shouldn't have to earn their pursuit of happiness, but be given it as a right in America. It fits in perfectly with all the other social beliefs they have about not grading students on an A-F scale, because it hurts their self-esteem, giving out trophies for participation and other such things to minimize the differences between those that work for their achievements and those that don't. The achievers should pay so those that don't artificially achieve the ability to "paint paintings, sculped statues " and other such things associated with those who have achieved a lifestyle through hard work.
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More foolish nonsense.
 
Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

Boo Radley said:
It was shrinking long before these policies. How far back will you guys reach to blame Obama. It seems everything that was happening is now his fault and due to reform. Can't you see any flaw in that reasoning?
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It is the Obama Administration which s doing all the complaining about the shrinking middle class while also doing everything they can to encourage it.

Certainly the policies of the Johnson Administration started the ball rolling but the Obama Administration has aggravated the situation while claiming they intend to solve it. It is a fine combination of hypocrisy, inexperience, incompetence and faulty ideology we see in play here.
 
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