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Thread: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinner

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No, it was not. If you don't have an articulate response then just ignore it. You're wasting space.
    No, it was stupid. Too stupid. Rates right up there with Bush us Hitler and behind 9/11. It was partisan hyperbole it worthy of of comment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it was stupid. Too stupid. Rates right up there with Bush us Hitler and behind 9/11. It was partisan hyperbole it worthy of of comment.
    I would say it is more born out of frustration of today's liberal progressive meme telling conservatives to sit in a corner and shut up while being blamed for every ill of America. Dismissing every complaint of the current administration may make you feel better Joe, but it really doesn't lend anything to an honest conversation...

    You are correct when you say that Obama is not at total and complete fault for what America is facing today, but he sure isn't helping situations any either. The problem I see is over reach of progressivism. Since Woodrow Wilson progressives have marched forward in furtherance of a pipe dream of equal outcomes that just simply can't exist in a free society unless they curtail that freedom at the expense of some in the benefit of others. These are not the ideals that made this country great, and the envy of the rest of the world.

    Although, I do think that liberal progressives do have compassionate ideas when it comes to things like poverty, and an over arching sense of fairness in the broadest terms, what I see going on today is what happens when ever any political entity gains too much control, or decides to take that control without consent, and that is it becomes corrupt, and that is what you are seeing unfold today.

    I can only hope that in coming elections that the people wake up and take back the ownership of the power of this nation that is supposed to reside in the people themselves, and put things back on a more balanced track where we come to decisions for the nation through true compromise, not brow beating the opposing party into submission on your way of doing things and calling that compromise.

    Otherwise we are headed down a path that we know throughout history does not provide for the prosperity that has in the past made America the place in the world where an equality of opportunity, not necessarily outcomes abounds, and the worlds masses yearning to be free can once again look to us to set the example, and not just some other country in a long list of 'also participated'......
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I would say it is more born out of frustration of today's liberal progressive meme telling conservatives to sit in a corner and shut up while being blamed for every ill of America. Dismissing every complaint of the current administration may make you feel better Joe, but it really doesn't lend anything to an honest conversation...

    You are correct when you say that Obama is not at total and complete fault for what America is facing today, but he sure isn't helping situations any either. The problem I see is over reach of progressivism. Since Woodrow Wilson progressives have marched forward in furtherance of a pipe dream of equal outcomes that just simply can't exist in a free society unless they curtail that freedom at the expense of some in the benefit of others. These are not the ideals that made this country great, and the envy of the rest of the world.

    Although, I do think that liberal progressives do have compassionate ideas when it comes to things like poverty, and an over arching sense of fairness in the broadest terms, what I see going on today is what happens when ever any political entity gains too much control, or decides to take that control without consent, and that is it becomes corrupt, and that is what you are seeing unfold today.

    I can only hope that in coming elections that the people wake up and take back the ownership of the power of this nation that is supposed to reside in the people themselves, and put things back on a more balanced track where we come to decisions for the nation through true compromise, not brow beating the opposing party into submission on your way of doing things and calling that compromise.

    Otherwise we are headed down a path that we know throughout history does not provide for the prosperity that has in the past made America the place in the world where an equality of opportunity, not necessarily outcomes abounds, and the worlds masses yearning to be free can once again look to us to set the example, and not just some other country in a long list of 'also participated'......
    One, I don't know what self esteem issue makes anyone think they've been told to sit in the corner and shut up. So I won't go into that. But frustration being expressed is usually silly, and as such supports what I said. So thank you for the support.

    J, yes, much like conservatives, liberals seek fairness. Where those lines are of going to far either way is debatable. But that's the point. Demonizing either side is silly. It's merely a matter of debate as to how far we go in either direction. Both sides fail when they go to far, and the pendulum will swing back the other way. But don't expect people to react reasonably to either side throw out hyperbolic silliness. When I was WS, I defended conservatives against the hyperbole liberals threw out. Bush wasn't Hitler. He wasn't behind 9/11. And he wasn't the antichrist. You get upset because I also won't entertain the silliness your side throws out. Think about that for a moment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One, I don't know what self esteem issue makes anyone think they've been told to sit in the corner and shut up. So I won't go into that. But frustration being expressed is usually silly, and as such supports what I said. So thank you for the support.

    J, yes, much like conservatives, liberals seek fairness. Where those lines are of going to far either way is debatable. But that's the point. Demonizing either side is silly. It's merely a matter of debate as to how far we go in either direction. Both sides fail when they go to far, and the pendulum will swing back the other way. But don't expect people to react reasonably to either side throw out hyperbolic silliness. When I was WS, I defended conservatives against the hyperbole liberals threw out. Bush wasn't Hitler. He wasn't behind 9/11. And he wasn't the antichrist. You get upset because I also won't entertain the silliness your side throws out. Think about that for a moment.
    Do you really expect a reasonable discussion when you start out your response to what I thought was a reasoned, thought out post, with a personal attack? My self esteem is just fine thank you for caring though. Frustration is a result many times to a one sided discussion. Nobody likes to have their ideas shot down, and never considered as legitimate. Part of conflict resolution is listening, we don't have either side doing that now. And further, yes, it is fair to say that Republicans or Conservatives are dismissed out of hand unreasonably, and told constantly that "elections have consequences" and because of that we that disagree need to just go along and unless we agree. Remember the Obama appearance where he was talking about "cleaning up the mess"? He said something to effect that "if the car was in the ditch, he didn't want those that put it there to be up front behind the wheel" we were to "get in the back"!!!! This kind of rhetoric is insulting. You expect that to be taken with graciousness and silence? Really? Much like your insulting opening to this post I am now responding to....

    As for the lines being crossed being 'debatable', and without trying to sound too snarky, thank you Captain Obvious....I am sorry but we are on a political debate site, and you think you need to tell me that we are here to debate? I am not demonizing anyone today, if you read what I wrote, I am really trying hard to have a discussion about this, whether or not we can I guess is up to you.

    The pendulum will swing for sure, you are correct about that...and I really don't want to continue down the path where either side of the isle needs total control of all branches of government to get anything done. That to me only seems to result in bad policy wouldn't you agree? And while you may see your time on WS as fair and balanced, and it is true that at that time years ago we both were probably more moderate in our views and responses, times move on, and it is a symptom you could say of ever increasing division in this country. How is that ever going to change if we just continue down the path, or look to 'the other guy' to change first? I don't get upset that silliness is not entertained, I get upset that you think you get to make the decision solely of what is silly.

    Now, if we can move more toward making this about the topic and less about us individually, that would be in keeping with how this is supposed to go....So, in that vein, I'll ask a question, and see if you can discuss....Do you think it is a smart move for demo's to formulate the convoluted argument that being unemployed is a blessing?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Okay, it was a dumb comment.

    But can we not fry this guy just because he made one dumb comment.

    I am neither rep nor dem (I think both parties and almost all politicians are worse then useless - including this guy probably)...but I am sick of this PC nonsense that dehumanizes people.

    Every tiny word uttered is over-analysed to such an extent that politicians are afraid to say ANYTHING off-the-cuff...so EVERYTHING is scripted. So they end up just being voice boxes for their political advisers.

    Debates are not debates - they are just which politician (after dozens of hours of coaching) can best remember the answers his/her people told him/her to say.

    I want humanity to come back to politics...which means not castrating every politician who makes a dumb statement...like this guy.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do you really expect a reasonable discussion when you start out your response to what I thought was a reasoned, thought out post, with a personal attack? My self esteem is just fine thank you for caring though. Frustration is a result many times to a one sided discussion. Nobody likes to have their ideas shot down, and never considered as legitimate. Part of conflict resolution is listening, we don't have either side doing that now. And further, yes, it is fair to say that Republicans or Conservatives are dismissed out of hand unreasonably, and told constantly that "elections have consequences" and because of that we that disagree need to just go along and unless we agree. Remember the Obama appearance where he was talking about "cleaning up the mess"? He said something to effect that "if the car was in the ditch, he didn't want those that put it there to be up front behind the wheel" we were to "get in the back"!!!! This kind of rhetoric is insulting. You expect that to be taken with graciousness and silence? Really? Much like your insulting opening to this post I am now responding to....

    As for the lines being crossed being 'debatable', and without trying to sound too snarky, thank you Captain Obvious....I am sorry but we are on a political debate site, and you think you need to tell me that we are here to debate? I am not demonizing anyone today, if you read what I wrote, I am really trying hard to have a discussion about this, whether or not we can I guess is up to you.

    The pendulum will swing for sure, you are correct about that...and I really don't want to continue down the path where either side of the isle needs total control of all branches of government to get anything done. That to me only seems to result in bad policy wouldn't you agree? And while you may see your time on WS as fair and balanced, and it is true that at that time years ago we both were probably more moderate in our views and responses, times move on, and it is a symptom you could say of ever increasing division in this country. How is that ever going to change if we just continue down the path, or look to 'the other guy' to change first? I don't get upset that silliness is not entertained, I get upset that you think you get to make the decision solely of what is silly.

    Now, if we can move more toward making this about the topic and less about us individually, that would be in keeping with how this is supposed to go....So, in that vein, I'll ask a question, and see if you can discuss....Do you think it is a smart move for demo's to formulate the convoluted argument that being unemployed is a blessing?
    No, I expected you to have a sense of humor.

    But your response is over the top, so maybe it was too close to home. In any case, you responded to discussion of the silliness. The point is debate isn't furthered by that silliness you seem to like and defend. As I've told you, I'll debate as reasonable as you do. So, choose.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I expected you to have a sense of humor.

    But your response is over the top, so maybe it was too close to home. In any case, you responded to discussion of the silliness. The point is debate isn't furthered by that silliness you seem to like and defend. As I've told you, I'll debate as reasonable as you do. So, choose.
    That's it? I've posted twice today, I think in a reasonable fashion, while you attack me personally...If you'd like to address the question at the end of my previous posting, then by all means we can talk about that. Short of that Have a good day Joe...I am not going to take your continued baiting.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's it? I've posted twice today, I think in a reasonable fashion, while you attack me personally...If you'd like to address the question at the end of my previous posting, then by all means we can talk about that. Short of that Have a good day Joe...I am not going to take your continued baiting.
    J, I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to keep a sense of humor with your replies. Your upset over nothing. That's not an attack, but an observation.

    You jumped into this j. No one invited you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to keep a sense of humor with your replies. Your upset over nothing. That's not an attack, but an observation.

    You jumped into this j. No one invited you.
    It's a simple question Joe....Do you think it is a smart move for demo's to formulate the convoluted argument that being unemployed is a blessing?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Rep. Keith Ellison on ObamaCare-Job Losses: More Time for Americans to Cook Dinne

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It's a simple question Joe....Do you think it is a smart move for demo's to formulate the convoluted argument that being unemployed is a blessing?
    1) it's not convoluted. It's the same thing Ryan said we needed. We knew baby boomers are nearing retirement. That many work for no other reason than insurance. The CBO makes this distinction rather well.

    2) insurance should not be the reason anyone works. Pay, salary, that should be the motivation and not insurance.


    All I've said us be honest about what it us. It's not a job killer, and the CBO made that clear.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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