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Thread: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope

    Using the public's money for political purposes is an abuse of power.
    If putting conditions on use of the publics money, particularly money represented by tax breaks as opposed to cash, was an abuse of power, than anything conditional would fall under that category.

    Let's say that there was no condition regarding the Unions involved. Let's say that instead the Republicans in office boasted that they had brought jobs to the state thus showing their "generosity" wouldn't that be just as political?

    Aren't most new laws political in nature? Should the Administration, now fighting voter ID laws, be viewed as abuse of political power? Doesn't almost everything contain political results?

    I understand your argument but isn't this the way politics work when you have the 2 opposing party system? Doesn't the party in power take actions to keep their power and the party out of favor initiate legislation to increase their position?

    Certainly the Democrats are passing laws that increase their voter base. Why would that be OK in view of the political power issue?

    I hope that is a reasonable question. Politicians are not self-sacrificing by nature, they are self-serving. So, isn't that the way it goes?

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What? So accepting any public campaign financing is taboo?
    Where did I say that?

    I said, using public funds for political purposes is an abuse of power.

    Which word did you not understand?
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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    IOW, the Tenn Republicans are saying that VW is not competent to decide for itself whether or not it goes union.
    No, they are saying they don't want to help fund a VW plant if it is unionized. Tennessee has as much right to decide for itself where its tax dollars as VW has the right to choose where they put their factory. VW is still free to choose Tennessee as the home of its new factory, it's just not likely since VW knows that the plant is not financially viable without Tennessee money and the UAW albatross draped over its shoulders.

    And the idea that the govt should stay out of private businesses goes under the bus. The republicans have no principles besides short-term self-interest
    Well, no, it's completely worth discussing whether a state should be paying businesses to move to the state that couldn't or wouldn't move their otherwise. But the recipe for Detroit levels of destruction rely on the kind of political cronyism you get when you have the powerful labor unions and State managed corporate welfare feeding off one another. Corporations at least have to hedge their bets between both parties while the Unions are simply a kickback machine to the Democratic Party.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 02-11-14 at 02:31 PM.
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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    My understanding is that this isn't a move at all. It is a new plant mean to build a new SUV that will be debuting in 2016. They currently are choosing between Tennessee and Mexico and from what I read into the story, Tennessee is only in the running because of state funding.

    My comment on moving is more of a forecast even if Tennessee lands the deal. In the long run the Republicans probably see a unionized plant being shut down and relocated to Mexico eventually, having essentially wasted the state funding.
    Understood. Where does VW stand on this deal? Are they siding with the Republicans and saying that if they are unionized they don't want to move to TN? Also, even if the UAW backs off, what would keep them from unionizing 10 minutes after the first SUV rolls off the line?

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    If putting conditions on use of the publics money, particularly money represented by tax breaks as opposed to cash, was an abuse of power, than anything conditional would fall under that category.
    The govt can put conditions on the use of public money, but not conditions that are political.


    Let's say that there was no condition regarding the Unions involved. Let's say that instead the Republicans in office boasted that they had brought jobs to the state thus showing their "generosity" wouldn't that be just as political?
    The use of that money would be to bring jobs to the state. Their boasting about it is not a use of public money

    Aren't most new laws political in nature? Should the Administration, now fighting voter ID laws, be viewed as abuse of political power? Doesn't almost everything contain political results?
    That is not a use of public money to promote a political party

    I understand your argument but isn't this the way politics work when you have the 2 opposing party system? Doesn't the party in power take actions to keep their power and the party out of favor initiate legislation to increase their position?

    Certainly the Democrats are passing laws that increase their voter base. Why would that be OK in view of the political power issue?

    I hope that is a reasonable question. Politicians are not self-sacrificing by nature, they are self-serving. So, isn't that the way it goes?
    Why yes, politicians are political. It would be hard to find any decision a politician makes that isn't meant to make them look good.

    However, there is a difference between trying to look good by making good policy and using public money to achieve politically partisan goals when there is no other reason. It is particularly corrupt when it comes from a party that claims the govt should not interfere with the operation of free enterprises, and then turns around and interferes with a free enterprises affairs because of political favoritism

    We can use our brains and see the obvious motivation for this policy. It is clear that it is not being done because of how it affects the residents of the state. It is motivated purely by a desire to keep money out of the hands of democrats. IOW, it's a purely partisan maneuver and an abuse of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    So right-to-work is okay but Union isn't, in spite of the worker preferences.
    The GOP double standard in a state that gives out taxpayer money to woo a foreign company to our shores .
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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, they are saying they don't want to help fund a VW plant if it is unionized.
    IOW, they are interfering with the decisions of a free enterprise with the hopes of influencing that decision despite their BS claims that the govt should not interfere with those decisions

    The corrupt GOP throws another of it's bogus "principles" under the bus
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Well then shoot the messenger while the message goes to Mexico.
    Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    An open state for right-to-work but a closed state for Unions.
    Not too statist and totalitarian .
    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Really ? If they are UAW don't they just hand their ballots over to the DNC (figuratively) on Election Day? What percent of the UAWs money in politics is non partisan? If you were a Republican in Tenn would you want to subsidize Democratic Party donations by the UAW? Really?
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Understood. Where does VW stand on this deal? Are they siding with the Republicans and saying that if they are unionized they don't want to move to TN? Also, even if the UAW backs off, what would keep them from unionizing 10 minutes after the first SUV rolls off the line?
    I don't really know. I think it is a wash for them. It really comes down to the bottom line. I don't think they care if the union moves in to the Tennessee plant so long as the state is covering the increased costs.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Tenn. politicians threaten to kill VW incentives if UAW wins election

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    IOW, they are interfering with the decisions of a free enterprise with the hopes of influencing that decision despite their BS claims that the govt should not interfere with those decisions
    Well no, they "interfered with the decisions of a free enterprise" when they offered money to VW in order to make it cheaper than Mexico. By withdrawing that money they are returning the VW decision back to purely market driven realities.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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