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Thread: Aging America heading for disaster

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Aging America heading for disaster | New York Post

    Now the economic downturn is caused by old people? I guess it had nothing to do with the housing boom/mortgage crisis and "debt bubble"? Sure the older population are more financially responsible with their income, because they don't have the ability to earn it anymore.

    I'd look to other causes like banks, corporations, immigration and the government. The average person, simply can't spend what they're not making.
    All of those factor into our present situation. The demographics are, however, very real and they are beginning to come home to roost. Looking at the way Japan is developing gives hints that help understand where first Europe and then the USA will go. There will be considerable differences from cultural diversity of the peoples concerned, but the proportion of elderly will increasingly mean that on balance savings will be used for consumption and thus tend to reduce investment and later production. It really is going to be problematic and we will have to face the music. The earlier we stop raging against bankers, brokers or politicians, role up our sleeves and change our structures of checks, balances and decision making, the better those under 50 will live in later life.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    My savings account reaped a whole .004% interest this past year.
    That's 4 times what mine paid. Damn you must be loaded to get that high of a return!
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    We didn't get this old by being stupid.
    Speak for yourself.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It's hard to argue against the math of the Post. For sure, the boomers are retiring. We don't spend as much, because we don't make as much. OTOH, you can't ignore the peculiar genius of GW Bush, the first torturer, in having created an economic shift in negative directions. Why do we beat around the Bush instead of beating Bush?
    Maybe Bush is not the enemy?

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    They don't know if they want us to live longer and make money from turning us into cyborgs with catheters, knee, hip implants, pacemaker/defibrillators or tell us, we can't be fixed to save money. We're all going to get old, unless they start stamping us with an expiration date. How about let's be humane and take care of the helpless (infants, disabled, sick and old) for now and try to control the making of 4+ children families? Then the population of older folks won't be any problem.
    Ah c'mon. You had a good run of it. 60s and 70s gave our country marijuana, sexual revolution, aids, breakdown of traditional family, hippies. Only fitting that your generation now bankrupt the country. Just kidding...sorta :p

    Seriously though, it's something that will challenge us in the future. I particularly think that Social Security will either not be available to my generation or it will definitely not be recognizable if it persists. The good news is there should be plenty of jobs opening up as the baby boomers retire. The bad news is we will have less money to pay for social welfare programs. Difficult to project to what extent retiring baby boomers will be replaced by technology in the work force. Aging baby boomers will probably lead to unprecedented medical research and development.

    All in all, there will be goods along with the 'others'. I don't think the economy is going to suffer to the extreme. Even Japan is doing fairly well standard of living wise despite their lack of economic growth. I think the biggest hit will be social welfare programs. We probably won't be able to take care of everyone with a third or more of our population retired or too young. Even fewer of the work force actually contributing to these programs to boot.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    I said it before...Carrousel...but much older.

    Live your life, save enough until you are some set age (like 80)...but nothing more. Then end it.

    And have fun up to the day you die.

    That is how I plan to go out...not one day older then 80 (assuming I am reasonably healthy until then).

    Sure, I might chicken out...we shall see.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    "Implicitly, Dent is saying: Don’t blame politicians, the decline of manufacturing, education or cheap foreign imports for the economic stagnation that has already begun and will continue for many years. Blame your parents and grandparents for losing interest in having children back in the Sixties."

    That is the last paragraph in the New York Post article. And I call BS. I blame the politicians for not properly funding Medicare, SS, and city and state retirement funds causing money being siphoned off to pay for them. I blame an educational system that failed to train people to work in the global economy. I don't blame parents who did the right thing and reduced the number of children they had. This isn't some big Ponzi scheme that can only survive if more suckers are created.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Aging America heading for disaster | New York Post



    Now the economic downturn is caused by old people? I guess it had nothing to do with the housing boom/mortgage crisis and "debt bubble"? Sure the older population are more financially responsible with their income, because they don't have the ability to earn it anymore.

    I'd look to other causes like banks, corporations, immigration and the government. The average person, simply can't spend what they're not making.

    That attitude in your message is why I believe the USA will continue to see rapidly increasing decline in the value of the dollar - and overall increasingly serious decline in the economy. The view that everything really is about who can make the best political speech.

    The aging of Americans is a serious problem and one that will grow. People now are on benefits for over 2 decades on average. They do not produce, only consume, but not as products consumers - service consumers. I started thread on this topic a few days ago. Between those who are seniors drawing benefits, those living on government benefits otherwise, and those employed by government, the country is rapidly acceleration to the point that every working person will have to totally pay for someone else too. And that someone else will cost more than they themselves cost.

    But instead people will just keep making political speeches raging about some evil "them." This is my response to the DNC's talking points.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    "Implicitly, Dent is saying: Don’t blame politicians, the decline of manufacturing, education or cheap foreign imports for the economic stagnation that has already begun and will continue for many years. Blame your parents and grandparents for losing interest in having children back in the Sixties."

    That is the last paragraph in the New York Post article. And I call BS. I blame the politicians for not properly funding Medicare, SS, and city and state retirement funds causing money being siphoned off to pay for them. I blame an educational system that failed to train people to work in the global economy. I don't blame parents who did the right thing and reduced the number of children they had. This isn't some big Ponzi scheme that can only survive if more suckers are created.
    I don't think anyone is blaming old people. It is a fact that we will have to live with. Blaming will get us no where.

    Regarding SS in it's current form and in our current state, it is a Ponzi scheme. It was conceived under honorable intentions, but has become bloated and unsustainable. We can't continue to perpetuate a system while putting our hands over our ears and screaming denying what is the unavoidable truth. Huge expansive social welfare programs hurt economy, only help a few generations before they eat themselves alive, and aren't flexible enough to deal with crises. For this reason, social welfare programs need to be extremely limited and ineligible for expansion. This creates predictability and sustainability while accomplishing the most basic of goals which is to keep people from dying on the streets NOT to provide people with comfortable retirement.

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    Re: Aging America heading for disaster

    Yep. Our biggest national problem is really old folks that have worked for about 40+ of their lives and then wish to retire. The solution is subsidizing more out of wedlock childbirth, adding PPACA, rasing the minimum wage, off-shoring the manufacturing jobs, playing world policeman, taxing the hell out of fossil fuels, cooking tons of corn into ethanol, building solar arrays and windmills everywhere, offering free college and openning up the borders to any immigrant that wants to bop on in.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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