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Thread: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Like what? Hmmm... <checks Jetboogieman's post history> ... hmmm... DMX boxing Zimmerman?! Bill Nye debating some preacher on evolution!?

    <Looks at Headlines Forum> Whoa... rainbow flag over Montreal City Hall?! MICHAEL SAM IS GAY!?

    Oh man.. do I feel silly now.
    Look here bud, I wasn't trying to say the issue isn't worth talking about, but people getting all bent out of shape about it, like really losing their minds over it when we already know how harsh man can be is a little ridiculous.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    <<<A spokesman for EAZA stressed that...describing euthanising animals as a "last resort". When the future survival of a species was at stake, he said, unpalatable decisions sometimes had to be made.>>>
    The future survival of a species? A couple of points here. First of all, giraffes are not endangered. Second, what exactly does that mean for a zoo which has no wildlife release program? Lets be honest, the only survival we're talking about here is of a certain population of giraffes placed in captivity for the purpose of making money from gawkers. Thats why the giraffe was killed and they should be honest about it. Still, the timing of this defies explanation. This particular giraffe wouldn't have even started mating for another 5-6 years. The fact that they chose to kill it now, before there's even a risk of mating, shows a callous disregard for life IMO.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 02-11-14 at 03:09 AM.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Recommendations aren't mandates. So much for your "he had to!" argument.
    Well, it depends on what you mean by "had to". Is the EAZA going to storm the place with guns? No. Will they remove their accreditation next time the zoo comes under review? Possibly.


    "based on" doesn't mean he was required to do it? You have tried to argue that there was some unavoidable compulsion -- you even claimed a fellow board member's sister was a liar for saying there was no compulsion -- and now you are trying to weasel out of it.
    1) The post I responded to claimed the ACA was against culling animals for genetic management. This is a lie

    2) If you want to interpret as adherence to professional guidelines as "unavoidable compulsion" I can't do much for you. But I know AZA members come under review every couple of years and not adhering to AZA guidelines will risk losing them their accreditation, which is a significant risk to any such institution. And something they are unlikely to look at as one of no consequence

    So? Would they have agreed with him had he sent Marius to the UK zoo?
    While space and resources could be better used to further aid the captive breeding program? No, because it would seem like mindless sentimentality. And in a scientific institution such as a zoo, the intent should be the long term management of the captive species, not ewwy good feelings

    How would you know?
    because I was involved in a few amateur projects to manage genetic diversity in captive animal species?


    And I am rejecting the idiotic rationale to exclude the non-lethal alternatives.
    based on what, your outrage? Yeah, I'm not buying what you are selling, captain

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If only science was advanced enough to test for such pathogens! Alas here we are trapped in the 1800s.
    Have you never heard of chytrid or rana virus? They were largely unknown pathogens until they lead to massive die-offs in wild populations

    <<<Brush-tail rock wallabies are currently being raised in species recovery programs and restored to the wild to bolster populations of this endangered species. Here, researchers found that nearly half of fecal samples from wallabies raised in these programs contained bacterial genes that encode resistance to streptomycin, spectinomycin and trimethoprim. None of these genes were detected in samples from five wild populations of wallabies. The authors add, "How these genes made their way into the wallaby microbes is unknown, but it seems likely that water or feed may have acted as a conduit for bacteria carrying these genes."
    Previous research shows that proximity to humans can increase animals' exposure to antibiotic resistance genes and the organisms that carry them. Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been reported in the wild from chimpanzees in Uganda, Atlantic bottlenose dolphins and a wide range of fish, birds and mammals. According to the researchers, their findings highlight the potential for genes and pathogens from human sources to be spread. Power says, "We found that antibiotic resistance genes from human pathogens have been picked up by endangered rock wallabies in a breeding program, and may spread into the wild when the wallabies are released.">>>


    Read more at: Captive-bred wallabies may carry antibiotic resistant bacteria into wild populations

    <<<Appropriate health checks should be carried out prior to release. A careful assessment (risk analysis) must be made as to the risks of released animals introducing novel pathogens (disease agents) into the wild population/environment.
    These pathogens may have been acquired from domestic animals, other wildlife casualties or humans whilst the animal was in captivity.
    The health checks should be designed to minimise the risk that pathogens posing a threat to wild populations of this or other species will be introduced into the environment when the animal is released.>>>

    Release of Casualty Dormice (Techniques)

    (Pro-tip: The giraffe was found to he perfectly healthy before it was killed and animals are released safely to the wild all the time.)
    Pro-tip, research any of the various control protocols used when establishing new wild populations in captivity. One of the main things they try to do is manage the animal in it's home environment as to reduce the risk from geographically foreign diseases and limit it's exposure to animals outside it's immediate environment. Naturally, a zoo, in a foreign country, is the last place such breeding programs ideally take place, especially in open exhibits.
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 02-11-14 at 05:41 AM.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The future survival of a species? A couple of points here. First of all, giraffes are not endangered.
    actually some subspecies are endangered: Nigerian and Baringo giraffe.

    Second, what exactly does that mean for a zoo which has no wildlife release program?
    management of the captive population


    This particular giraffe wouldn't have even started mating for another 5-6 years. The fact that they chose to kill it now, before there's even a risk of mating, shows a callous disregard for life IMO.
    How much money do you think it costs to properly house and feed a giraffe for 5-6 years? Those resources could be better used towards productive management

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    why? No one was forced to be there any many people would probably love attending something like that
    Call me crazy but I would have loved to have been there, sounds really cool to me. Usually I only get to see the snakes eating mice over at the reptile exhibit.

    Look, these lions have to eat some kind of meat everyday. If I had to guess they probably get lots of beef-- and maybe even horse meat, but I haven't heard anyone crying over the cows and horses.

    It sounds like there was a good reason why this giraffe needed to be destroyed, so why not feed it to the lions. It's not like they can just take a dead giraffe and put it into the trash can out by the curb. And if it didn't get fed to some of the resident carnivores, it probably would have ended up as dog food, or some by product that they put in shampoo.

    Seems like the only ones who haven't complained about this are the lions. Yum!

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As a Dane I am a shamed of my country over this.
    If it helps you feel any better, I think you're a Great Dane.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yeah, the whole thing was seven levels of screwed up. Other zoos would have taken the animal, but instead let's chop him up in little pieces in front of the kids and feed the remains to the lion.
    Are you playing to the lion vote?

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Well from what I understand they could not just ship him to another zoo because other European zoos also have an inbreeding problem. Not saying I agree but they do have a reason for it, wouldn't, I don't know, neutering the giraffe solve the problem?
    We don't neuter rapists. Lock them up.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    So many clueless hippies...
    Ok, that does it! I waste Professor Plum with the lead pipe.
    Oh yeah? Well say hello to my little friend, Colonel Mustard! Candlestick to the face!
    This is the last time I'm playing Clue with you two...

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