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Thread: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Look here bud, I wasn't trying to say the issue isn't worth talking about, but people getting all bent out of shape about it, like really losing their minds over it when we already know how harsh man can be is a little ridiculous.
    I'm sorry, was I too "harsh" on you?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    <<<Completely unnecessary clarification of an argument that missed the point>>>


    Read more at: Captive-bred wallabies may carry antibiotic resistant bacteria into wild populations

    <<<Appropriate health checks should be carried out prior to release. A careful assessment (risk analysis) must be made as to the risks of released animals introducing novel pathogens (disease agents) into the wild population/environment.
    These pathogens may have been acquired from domestic animals, other wildlife casualties or humans whilst the animal was in captivity.
    The health checks should be designed to minimise the risk that pathogens posing a threat to wild populations of this or other species will be introduced into the environment when the animal is released.>>>

    OK, read the bold bit slooooooooooooowly. Let that sink in. It is quite possible to assess an animal for the existence of these diseases before they release them to the wild. In fact they gave Marius a clean bill of health.

    So essentially your idiotic emergency backup justification falls flat when you realize it is only a danger when a zoo DOESN'T think about such things before releasing the animal which means it s logically impossible for the Copenhagen Zoo to have ruled out release due to a pathogen when thy gave the giraffe a clean bill of health.


    Release of Casualty Dormice (Techniques)

    Pro-tip, research any of the various control protocols used when establishing new wild populations in captivity. One of the main things they try to do is manage the animal in it's home environment as to reduce the risk from geographically foreign diseases and limit it's exposure to animals outside it's immediate environment. Naturally, a zoo, in a foreign country, is the last place such breeding programs ideally take place, especially in open exhibits.
    And they can test any animal for such pathogens prior to release.

    Ironically, all the most common arguments against releasing the animal to the wild end up calling the entire breeding program into question. If the giraffes will never be suitable for release back into the wild then there is little reason to protect the genetics so zealously that they kill healthy animals on the fear that one day it might breed with a family member.
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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    OK, read the bold bit slooooooooooooowly. Let that sink in. It is quite possible to assess an animal for the existence of these diseases before they release them to the wild. In fact they gave Marius a clean bill of health.
    lol, I just explained to you how housing conditions are a big part of that risk assessment. Now would a zoo in a foreign country represent a high level of exposure to "domestic animals, other wildlife casualties or humans whilst the animal was in captivity"?

    So essentially your idiotic emergency backup justification falls flat when you realize it is only a danger when a zoo DOESN'T think about such things before releasing the animal which means it s logically impossible for the Copenhagen Zoo to have ruled out release due to a pathogen when thy gave the giraffe a clean bill of health.
    A clean bill of health in a zoo setting does not mean it's a low risk animal to release back into the wild, when the main concern are pathogens we currently do not know about or fully understand.

    And they can test any animal for such pathogens prior to release.
    only if you know what to test for ...


    Ironically, all the most common arguments against releasing the animal to the wild end up calling the entire breeding program into question. If the giraffes will never be suitable for release back into the wild then there is little reason to protect the genetics so zealously that they kill healthy animals on the fear that one day it might breed with a family member.
    to maintain the captive population in it's current genetic state. In such a captive situation adaptation pressures still exist and the population will slowly select towards animals reflective of a zoo environment.

    A genetic diversity comparison between captive individuals and wild individuals of Elliot
    Strategies for maintaining genetic diversity in captive populations through reproductive technology - Ballou - 2005 - Zoo Biology - Wiley Online Library
    http://www.michaelsoule.com/resource...urce_file1.pdf

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol, I just explained to you how housing conditions are a big part of that risk assessment. Now would a zoo in a foreign country represent a high level of exposure to "domestic animals, other wildlife casualties or humans whilst the animal was in captivity"?

    A clean bill of health in a zoo setting does not mean it's a low risk animal to release back into the wild, when the main concern are pathogens we currently do not know about or fully understand.
    Still chasing your tail on this? It seems counter productive of you to continually argue on the incompetence of the Copenhagen zoo.

    only if you know what to test for ...
    I would assume they are competent. If they aren't they should give their giraffes to more competent zoos.

    to maintain the captive population in it's current genetic state. In such a captive situation adaptation pressures still exist and the population will slowly select towards animals reflective of a zoo environment.

    A genetic diversity comparison between captive individuals and wild individuals of Elliot
    Strategies for maintaining genetic diversity in captive populations through reproductive technology - Ballou - 2005 - Zoo Biology - Wiley Online Library
    http://www.michaelsoule.com/resource...urce_file1.pdf
    So the program for which Marius was sacrificed is utterly pointless. If the giraffes are self selecting towards Zoo friendly genes then the Zoo to doing a terrible job of protecting giraffe genetic code. All it is doing is maintaining the genetic code of a divergent breed of zoo giraffe.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Still chasing your tail on this? It seems counter productive of you to continually argue on the incompetence of the Copenhagen zoo.
    1) I'm unsure how I am "chasing my tail"

    2) these are control mechanisms and threat assessments down to any potential captive release. SO how would I be arguing against the competence of the Copenhagen zoo when there was no intent to release the animal originally and need to introduce such levels of safety?

    I would assume they are competent. If they aren't they should give their giraffes to more competent zoos.
    The entire concern rests on various pathogens that we normally do not see as dangerous or even know about. That is why general protocols call for limited risk of exposure

    So the program for which Marius was sacrificed is utterly pointless. If the giraffes are self selecting towards Zoo friendly genes then the Zoo to doing a terrible job of protecting giraffe genetic code. All it is doing is maintaining the genetic code of a divergent breed of zoo giraffe.
    No, because genetic bottle necking, inbreeding, and outbreeding depression are still a concern in a captive environment and in the ideal zoo setting they display wild animals. Not weird variations that develop from wild animals in captivity

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm sorry, was I too "harsh" on you?
    What does that even mean?

    Go back to denying evolution and leave everything else to the big boys would yah?

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Moderator's Warning:
    Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named MariusThe trolling needs to stop and the topic needs to be discussed civily

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Well from what I understand they could not just ship him to another zoo because other European zoos also have an inbreeding problem. Not saying I agree but they do have a reason for it, wouldn't, I don't know, neutering the giraffe solve the problem?
    Giraffes can be gelded, just like horses. There's also chemical sterilization. That animal could have been a perfectly fine exhibit at another zoo, even a companion animal for a lone giraffe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I have a niece that is a director of an aviary at a zoo in Utah, she says you are full of it. In the states at every state ran facility they do a search to find suitable homes for unwanted or un needed animals. Private zoos may do it different, but I have been to private zoos and they need to be closed.
    My ex was also a zookeeper. We were involved with the Bronx Zoo, the Tuscon Desert Museum (zoo), and Woodland Park here. I did envir ed programs for them. You dont cull healthy animals without a very good reason....I see none in what I've read of the Danish situation. There are probably even sanctuaries that might have taken him as an 'attraction' so more people would come and bring donations. (In more favorable climates in Europe.) It is done here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Copenhagen zoo sparks outrage by killing healthy giraffe named Marius

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You dont cull healthy animals without a very good reason
    no one suggested they did.

    I see none in what I've read of the Danish situation.
    Besides limited space and resources, which was directly cited by the EAZA representative?

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