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All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

How would that affect women?

I would suppose that a woman, just as with a man, would do what they are comfortable with.

I've showered with both genders in a public shower while camping. If someone else wants to stare, that's their problem.
 
I would suppose that a woman, just as with a man, would do what they are comfortable with.

I've showered with both genders in a public shower while camping. If someone else wants to stare, that's their problem.

But the question is what does society do when you have a problem with people staring at you? Typically we have provided seprate facilities at workplaces, schools, gyms, etc. We dont force women to shower with men, or use the same public bathrooms. Since this is because men and women are sexually attracted to each other and we have taboos about nudity, how is this going to affect society with gays being attracted to men and women and each other?

If gays become common place in the NFL, wont the NFL have to provide seperate facilities to avoid the kind of harrasment women typically recieve from men? This goes for the military too.
 
Then there's this guy, mucking up the discussion.

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But the question is what does society do when you have a problem with people staring at you? Typically we have provided seprate facilities at workplaces, schools, gyms, etc. We dont force women to shower with men, or use the same public bathrooms. Since this is because men and women are sexually attracted to each other and we have taboos about nudity, how is this going to affect society with gays being attracted to men and women and each other?

If gays become common place in the NFL, wont the NFL have to provide seperate facilities to avoid the kind of harrasment women typically recieve from men? This goes for the military too.

If someone is uncomfortable, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, then they should shower separately. It's not something new the moment someone announces their gay or not, there are bashful people of both genders and all sexual orientations.

I just don't see the logic in applying the 'separate locker rooms' thing ONLY because of sexual orientation.
 
I could care less if he is gay, straight or bi-curious/bi. All that he should be is the best American Football player that he can be. His sexual preference is a non-issue for me.

I hope he will have a great and wonderful career and prove to other gays that they too will be accepted in professional sports if they choose to become athletes.
 
Colins was at the low end of the spectrum as far as NBA centers go. he only averaged 3ppg over his career. he was at his best clogging up the middle and committing fouls to keep people from getting a clean shot off. barely good enough to stay in the league, but never good enough to start or stay with the same team for more than a couple of years.

Yes i was conceding that. No one knows whether his announcement made the difference in getting a contract or not. If this all-american linebacker is not signed, however, we will all know the reason why. Gonna be interesting
 
He was. And despite having the talent to still be on of the 32 best QB's in the NFL, the only job he got was as the 3rd string backup behind an established starter and a young high draft pick in one of the most stable franchises in the NFL at that time (Philadelphia). Michael Vick doesn't counter my argument...he makes it.

Vick went on in later years to start, and not just start but play at an MVP level. Clearly, the TALENT was there. But the media circus that was inevitably going to follow any team that picked him up drove away potential suitors that could've used him as a starter. It took an incredibly stable organization giving him a shot well below what someone with his talent, but without the distraction, would've warranted to get him back into the NFL.

Tim Tebow is another example. Here's a guy that helped lead his team from a losing record to a playoff birth and then playoff victory. Heisman Winner. Two time national champion. 1st round pick. And still young. He should AT LEAST be talented enough to be a 3rd stringer on some teams squad, if not the backup. However, the problem is that the media attention he drives is just way too big of a headache.

Time and time again NFL players have bene shyed away from because the potential risk outweights the potential reward. Many instances this ties into negative media attention. Manti Te'o could be another potential argument to point to here and his drop in the draft.

I'm not saying he doesn't get drafted. I absolutely think he does. But I also do think there are a number of organizations who, completely reasonably imho, would choose to take him off their board completely or downgrade the round because they don't feel the potential media circus is worth the potential reward of his talent on the field.

And if he's drafted I think you'll be seeing media, including non-sports media, out at Training camp looking to ask players questions regarding it, seeking to ask coaches questions regarding his spot on the team/impact/etc, and just in general a larger prsense than normal. I imagine the preseason games, if the team has any nationally televised, will likely put some focus on him. If he ends up being a backup there may not be much come the regular season, but I wouldn't be shocked if there still was attention being driven.

You had ESPN basically camped out at a team to give daily updates about a backup Quarterback on a bad team. I can't fathom that somehow the first openly gay player in the NFL is going to sniff little to no real media disruption.

Now I will say...if a rash of players come out, including some that are currently active, then suddenly it becomes less of a big deal and you probably have more GM's open to taking him because the level of distraction reduces as it becomes more spread out.

Several months will pass before the season. What's that say about our society that this is somehow a "circus/distraction" similar to what vick did or even te'o? I disagree entirely that it would be "reasonable." It would be illegal and something they can and should get sued for. Discrimination is never acceptable.
 
Michael Sam is closer to Jim McGreevy than he is to Jackie Robinson.

Why do you say that, because the nfl hasn't proven repeatedly to be hostile to gays or cause the latter are all the same to you?

This is pretty damn insulting. Sam came out on his own, to his team last season. He wasn't caught in an affair or any such bs.
 
If someone is uncomfortable, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, then they should shower separately. It's not something new the moment someone announces their gay or not, there are bashful people of both genders and all sexual orientations.

I just don't see the logic in applying the 'separate locker rooms' thing ONLY because of sexual orientation.

Isnt that why women have separate locker rooms? Sexual orientation?
 
'The Missouri defensive end could become the first openly gay player in the NFL.

Missouri All-American Michael Sam says he is gay, and the defensive end could become the first openly homosexual player in the NFL.

In interviews with ESPN, The New York Times and Outsports, Sam says he came out to his teammates and coaches at Missouri in August.

Sam says: “I am an openly, proud gay man.”'


All-American Michael Sam says he is gay - latimes.com



Gutsy guy. I hope this does not in any way hurt his career or his life.

But it is about time someone in the NFL came out...so big kudos to him...it must not have been an easy decision.

This story is funny ****...

First I could give a **** who he likes to bone.

But, I read an article on him this morning in the Chicago Tribune (progressive toilet paper) and they did an entire expose on him, and they couldn't stop mentioning hes gay....

Now, usually mid-to-late 1st round picks don't get this type of media - the only possible reason this clown is getting media attention is because hes gay and progressives LOVE gay people.... You see - in progressiveland being a person is ok but being a GAY person elevates you into STAR status...

Of course progressives claim gay is "normal" so why the **** don't they treat being gay as "normal?"

You think any mid-to-late 1st round pick would get a front page article in ANY major news outlet/paper?

So yes the dude only got a front page piece in the Trib because he is gay - and progressives love to promote the **** out of homosexuality...
 
Why do you say that, because the nfl hasn't proven repeatedly to be hostile to gays or cause the latter are all the same to you?

This is pretty damn insulting. Sam came out on his own, to his team last season. He wasn't caught in an affair or any such bs.

I don't even understand what you say in your first sentence. On the wide spectrum between Jim McGreevy and Jackie Robinson, I think it is 100 accurate to say that Michael Sam is closer to Jim McGreevy than he is to Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson didn't get to have a whole lot of introspective time to decide whether to let the world know he was a Black American and what he experienced was a whole lot more hostile than anything that Michael Sam could experience.

Get off your high horse and have a bit of perspective. Jim McGreevy was self serving and attempting to defend himself in his "gayness" by defending himself against sexual harassment charges against the person who he was "gay" with and provided a state job. Jackie Robinson volunteered to be a test case for the integration of baseball.
 
Isnt that why women have separate locker rooms? Sexual orientation?

The basis of your statement was now gays would need separate locker rooms. Specifically because they are gay. Not all women are heterosexual, so should lesbians be forced to have separate facilities too?
 
The basis of your statement was now gays would need separate locker rooms. Specifically because they are gay. Not all women are heterosexual, so should lesbians be forced to have separate facilities too?

Correct. Women get seperate facilities because of sexual attraction. Logically gays should get seperate facilities because of sexual attraction. Its a brave new world.
 
Correct. Women get seperate facilities because of sexual attraction. Logically gays should get seperate facilities because of sexual attraction. Its a brave new world.

So we are right back to everyone having their own separate facilities.... regardless of sexual orientation. ;)
 
What's that say about our society that this is somehow a "circus/distraction" similar to what vick did or even te'o?

You won't get any argument from me on that. The fact that our society is such that Tim Tebow being a devout and out spoken Christian or Michael Sam being gay is going to garner so much attention and focus that that it becomes a major distraction to the team....but doesn't happen for a player who, for instance, killed someone while drunk driving is unfortunate and sad. But things being unfortunate and sad doesn't magically mean they don't exist.

The reality is Tim Tebow's outspoken Christianity has garnered him a massive following, which causes the media to salivate over coverage of him, which causes clubs to stay away from him. The reality is Michael Sam being the first openly gay player to potentially come into the NFL, which is a major social and political story on top of the sports story to it, and is going to garner massive attention for significant time for the simple impact it has in the realm of civil rights in this country.

Though I will say again, Vick was a circus and distraction. The man still had the athletic ability and talent to be one of the best QB's in the league at the time he tried to come back into the NFL, as evidenced by his borderline MVP season the following year. Yet the only team that would make a significant move on him was one with an established veteran QB and a "waiting in the wings" young drafted backup that had a coach who had been in place for more than a decade; and even then, it was as a third stringer. The potential "distraction" of Mike Vick absolutley cost him in terms of what teams would take a chance on him and to what degree.

I'll clarify again, I'm not saying Michael Sam doesn't get drafted (I'd be SHOCKED). I'm not saying Michael Sam shouldn't be drafted. I'm not even saying I as a GM, specifically of the Redskins, wouldn't draft him.

What I am saying is there are likely teams that would either take him off their board, or down grade him, because they're going to take the distraction into account...and there's nothing wrong with that imho. No more wrong than teams largely ignoring Tebow. But as I said, it only takes one team to decide that they CAN handle it. And if/when he falls farther in the draft and presents better value, the amount of teams willing to take that chance will continue to improve.

It would be illegal and something they can and should get sued for.

Ridiculous.

It'd be unreasonable and illegal if they were doing it BECAUSE he's gay. just like it'd be unreasonable and illegal if they were doing it to Tebow BECAUSE he's a christian.

However, that's not the reason in most cases. It's the media attention and hoopla that's likely to become attached to the situation and the player that is going to drive some teams away till later in the draft, or permanently. And there's nothing illegal about that, nor unreasonable. In the wrong locker room distractions and constant media pressure and attention can be damaging; I've witnessed it first hand multiple times here in Washington. It's ENTIRELY reasonable to take that into account when signing players. It's also entirely reasonable to take REALITY into account as opposed to gun drops and rainbows of what "should" garner massive public attention.
 
The basis of your statement was now gays would need separate locker rooms. Specifically because they are gay. Not all women are heterosexual, so should lesbians be forced to have separate facilities too?

you guys are beating around the Bush here: Obviously segregated locker rooms were initially geared towards what people saw as inappropriate contact between the opposite sexes due to sexual attraction and arousal. And his point that homosexuals being in the same shower and changing area is akin to having a mixed arrangement for men and women clearly has merit.

either address the argument or don't, but the attempt at naivety are just childish.
 
I would think it would be damn near impossible to find anyone who hasn't showered with a gay person of the same sex.
 
Oh, the news it's about me, I didn't announce anything. Good point about the locker room though. I guess he'll have a seperate room, or just get to see the sex he is attracked to unclothed all the time. I wonder if women would have a problem with a guy showering with them?

So this will be the first gay guy in the NFL? There have never been any others out or not?

How many women play in the NFL and need to shower after the game anyway?
 
I would think it would be damn near impossible to find anyone who hasn't showered with a gay person of the same sex.

As I mentioned earlier: anyone that has been to a public gym had to likely deal with meat gazers at one time or another. But that doesn't negate the point he is making in his argument
 
you guys are beating around the Bush here: Obviously segregated locker rooms were initially geared towards what people saw as inappropriate contact between the opposite sexes due to sexual attraction and arousal. And his point that homosexuals being in the same shower and changing area is akin to having a mixed arrangement for men and women clearly has merit.

either address the argument or don't, but the attempt at naivety are just childish.

It's been happening in NFL locker rooms for years already. The only difference is the others weren't "out." When I had a gym membership I showered after my workout, and I would be surprised if NOBODY in that locker room was gay. Actually, I'm pretty sure that I saw Esera Tuaolo in there a few times. He was gay, and he used to play in the NFL.
 
As I mentioned earlier: anyone that has been to a public gym had to likely deal with meat gazers at one time or another. But that doesn't negate the point he is making in his argument

How many men have been raped in NFL locker rooms?
 
So this will be the first gay guy in the NFL?

the first openly gay man, yes ...

There have never been any others out or not?

how does that address the issue? Look, I think the concern is trite, but the arguments you guys are making to address it are laughably bad: if we had women sneaking into the YMCA, when it was still a men's only organization, clearly no one would see the need to women's facilities.

How many women play in the NFL and need to shower after the game anyway?

I imagine anyone with acceptable hygiene would need to shower after practice and the game. Not to mention, it's not like modesty is practiced in a locker room
 
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