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All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

I knew Collins was a nobody. I thoight for sure that his announcement gaurantee him a spot on the team.

Well, you were wrong about this as you are about most of the important issues we discuss.
 
Something occured to me when I was a young homophobic Marine. They are gay wether they come out or not. So it really must not be a big deal since it wasnt a problem anyway.

it depends on "the gay". when I was a young active duty guy living in the barracks (in the days before DADT) there was a gay dude in our barracks. Everyone knew he was gay even though he never "came out". Sweet Mike, everyone called him. Dude was always the first one in the shower in the morning and the last one out. He'd just stand there soaping himself watching everyone shower. It was kinda creepy but he never tried anything so it wasn't that big a deal.
 
it depends on "the gay". when I was a young active duty guy living in the barracks (in the days before DADT) there was a gay dude in our barracks. Everyone knew he was gay even though he never "came out". Sweet Mike, everyone called him. Dude was always the first one in the shower in the morning and the last one out. He'd just stand there soaping himself watching everyone shower. It was kinda creepy but he never tried anything so it wasn't that big a deal.

Yeah, meat gazers aren't actually an unknown phenomenon.
 
It won't be an issue as long as it doesn't become a problem in and of itself. If he plays like every other player, nobody will bring it up. Now if he complains, he'll get shoved out the door.

Think of it like Martin/Incognito. Martin bitched and whined. Now he's ostracized.
 
He cut in half, at least the number of teams that might draft him. Should have waited till after the ink was dry on a contract.
 
He cut in half, at least the number of teams that might draft him. Should have waited till after the ink was dry on a contract.

Doubtful. He's there to play football. If he could play at Mizzou without a problem, why should the NFL be any different? You do realize that "the Packers" isn't a slur, right? "The Packers" come from the meat packing industry, not a homosexual slur.

NFLPA said they welcomed him.
 
To bump this guy down the list strictly because he is gay is not cool...and I don't even begin to care what your justification is.

Cool story bro. Perhaps when I actually bump him down strictly because he's gay I'd care about your ridiculous judgement of me on it. But considering your ridiculously going off of your own imaginary world where everyone says what you want them to say instead of actually dealing in the real world where you actually have to accept that people have thoughts and articulate them and you'd have to actually read them to be able to interact, I don't expect that to happen.

You go have all the respect for the imaginatary characters in your head all you want. When you want to talk about what I'm ACTUALLY saying and lay your judgement on that, get back to me.
 
Doubtful. He's there to play football. If he could play at Mizzou without a problem, why should the NFL be any different? You do realize that "the Packers" isn't a slur, right? "The Packers" come from the meat packing industry, not a homosexual slur.

NFLPA said they welcomed him.
Yea, I know what the Packers name means. And of course the players association says they will welcome him. Other wise his lawsuit payout would be more than a 5 year playing contract.
 
Cool story bro. Perhaps when I actually bump him down strictly because he's gay I'd care about your ridiculous judgement of me on it. But considering your ridiculously going off of your own imaginary world where everyone says what you want them to say instead of actually dealing in the real world where you actually have to accept that people have thoughts and articulate them and you'd have to actually read them to be able to interact, I don't expect that to happen.

You go have all the respect for the imaginatary characters in your head all you want. When you want to talk about what I'm ACTUALLY saying and lay your judgement on that, get back to me.

Okee dokee.

Btw - your words from post #35:

'If I was the GM of my team at the moment there's no way I draft this guy unless it's in the LATE rounds for great value, and even then I think about it. Why? Because I don't want my team having an unncessary additional distraction.'


Sounds to me like you bumped him down because he is gay to me. If he was not gay, you would have drafted him wherever your scouts told you to. But because he is gay, you won't.


Anyway, I have wasted enough time on this with you.

We are done here for now.


Good day.
 
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He cut in half, at least the number of teams that might draft him. Should have waited till after the ink was dry on a contract.

Can't disagree more.

By all accounts, this was pretty widely known by his teammates and his coaches. I think it's far fetched to imagine that NFL teams doing their due dillegence on picks wouldn't have discovered this. What's more, I don't believe that the media doing their due dillegence leading up to the draft wouldn't have found something like this out. Especially once you get to the combine and have team interviews and you ALWAYS see "anonymous" leaks coming out of those.

If anything, he may actually help himself out a bit. Now the story at least has a chance to catch fire and potentially die out a bit so that come draft time and training camp it's not as BIG of a story. Had this came out shortly before the draft then I think it'd have hurt him far worse.

And, even outside of any damage to his draft stock....I can't blame him one bit for this. He had a reasonable belief that this would probalby "get out" in some fashion prior to the draft because it was known even if it wasn't amazingly public. With that in mind, I can't blame him at all with wanting to be the person making it known rather than crusing onto something like ProFootballTalk one day and seeing a story about an "anonymous" source leaking out that a player interviewed at the combine was gay and then seeing a follow up one naming some unnamed source on the Mizzu team claiming that he was that player.

I do think it'll hinder him on the draft boards, but ultimately I think he's got the talent that he'll make it into the league in some fashion. It ultimately only takes one team saying "The risk is worth the reward". In the long run a drop on the board may actually be beneficial to him...as I imagine this makes it more likely a stable, well ran organizatoin takes him in a later round as a "value pick".

For his playing sake, I actually hope you don't have a small market team struggling to get "buzz" pick him in like the 2nd or early third and basically put a lot of unneeded pressure on his shoulders not for football reasons but because of marketting and political agendas.
 
Yea, I know what the Packers name means. And of course the players association says they will welcome him. Other wise his lawsuit payout would be more than a 5 year playing contract.

... or they actually support him.
 
You mean like everybody just said ho-hum when the first black baseball player made the major leagues?

I doubt this guy is the first homosexual to play in the majors, so that comparison makes no sense.

And why can't a person on his team say "I don't mind you are gay but I would feel uncomfortable showering with you." What is wrong with that?! That would seem like the natural reaction to me, yet I'm sure if someone were to say that the rainbow flagwavers would be calling him a bigot in two seconds. That's why everybody has to overcompensate in these situations and make this guy the biggest hero since Washington crossed the friggin Delaware.

gets to be a bit much.
 
Sounds to me like you bumped him down because he is gay to me.

Sounds to me like you're being amazingly dishonest and highlighting the issue with you apparently not reading words people write and instead just responding based off your imagination.

I identified what the distraction is over and over and over again in every post I've made in this thread. From my very first post I noted...the fact this is already a major news story, not just with the sports media but the normal media, is a major distraction. The news coverage of this is a major distraction.

The reason I wouldn't want Tim Tebow on my team isn't because he's a proud Christian who routinely speaks his faith....it's because the media is obsessed with him and even if he's the 3rd string QB there will be a ton of attention and questions surrounding him.

The reason I wouldn't want to take Michael Sam if I'm the Redskins, especially in the 3rd or 4th round, isn't because he's gay...it's because the media is obsessed with glomming onto anything that can tie political issues to sports and will cause a backup OLB to likely cause a lot of unnecessary media attention and questions.

For someone who keeps telling me "we're done" and how much time you're wasting, you sure are taking a lot of time to continue to misrepresent what I'm saying again and again and again. Just so you know...if you misrepresent what I've CLEARLy said I'm going to respond and set the record straight. So if you keep responding in such a fashion you can expect to keep getting responses pointing out your dishonesty.
 
I doubt this guy is the first homosexual to play in the majors, so that comparison makes no sense.

Well, he absolutely wouldn't be the first homosexual to play in the NFL. One of the greatest Redskins of all time, and one of the best Tight Ends ever (he really should be getting a look at the hall of fame by the senior committee at some point), Jerry Smith was a homosexual. However, Michael would be the first openly gay player to actively be drafted and/or play in the NFL while gay which is why it's a big deal.

And I don't think there'd be anything wrong at all with someone being uncomfortable about showering with him. Hell, I know guys who are uncomfortable showering with other straight guys. Making that an issue, either on one side going "We can't have them there! someone may feel uncomfortable showering with them" or going "Wow! What an ass, how dare he feel uncomfortable", is just ridiculous to me.

Now, it will probably take a strong locker room. And I do think what steeler's Safety Ryan Clark said recently is going to play into things...how does the guy handle a lockerroom. Guys make fun of guys, and football players largely are unfiltered. Clark said something along the lines of how they'll make fun of guy whose ugly, or whose fat, or whose spouse is ugly, etc because generally in the locker room it's known to all be just kind of part of the ribbing and the fun. I don't doubt the guy's going to get some ribs, especially as a rookie, that relate to his sexual orientation (just like I'm sure guys will get ribbed if they went out with a "dog" the night before. Guys joke about sex lives in gratitous fashion often). The question would be how he handles that.

However, I'd not worry too much about that. First, that's something in a general sense every NFL team does...trying to see if a guy coming in is going to be able to handle the personality of an NFL locker room. This will happen even more in light of the stuff down in Miami. Two, I can't imagine that with his teammates at Mizzu knowing this that there wasn't an off hand joke or two that he had to deal with and if he couldn't he would've had more issues there.

I really don't think the "gay" thing within the locker room is going to be as bad or as big of an issue as some people are thinking.
 
Can't disagree more.

By all accounts, this was pretty widely known by his teammates and his coaches. I think it's far fetched to imagine that NFL teams doing their due dillegence on picks wouldn't have discovered this. What's more, I don't believe that the media doing their due dillegence leading up to the draft wouldn't have found something like this out. Especially once you get to the combine and have team interviews and you ALWAYS see "anonymous" leaks coming out of those.

If anything, he may actually help himself out a bit. Now the story at least has a chance to catch fire and potentially die out a bit so that come draft time and training camp it's not as BIG of a story. Had this came out shortly before the draft then I think it'd have hurt him far worse.

And, even outside of any damage to his draft stock....I can't blame him one bit for this. He had a reasonable belief that this would probalby "get out" in some fashion prior to the draft because it was known even if it wasn't amazingly public. With that in mind, I can't blame him at all with wanting to be the person making it known rather than crusing onto something like ProFootballTalk one day and seeing a story about an "anonymous" source leaking out that a player interviewed at the combine was gay and then seeing a follow up one naming some unnamed source on the Mizzu team claiming that he was that player.

I do think it'll hinder him on the draft boards, but ultimately I think he's got the talent that he'll make it into the league in some fashion. It ultimately only takes one team saying "The risk is worth the reward". In the long run a drop on the board may actually be beneficial to him...as I imagine this makes it more likely a stable, well ran organizatoin takes him in a later round as a "value pick".

For his playing sake, I actually hope you don't have a small market team struggling to get "buzz" pick him in like the 2nd or early third and basically put a lot of unneeded pressure on his shoulders not for football reasons but because of marketting and political agendas.
He will be ran out of the locker room. His toughness will be called into question at every turn and will get his ass handed to him every time someone thinks he is "checking them out". He will be considered weak and even the fans will never accept him.
 
He will be ran out of the locker room. His toughness will be called into question at every turn and will get his ass handed to him every time someone thinks he is "checking them out". He will be considered weak and even the fans will never accept him.

None of which happened at Mizzou, at least to my knowledge.
 
I dont think most normal guys think like that.
He will be ran out of the locker room. His toughness will be called into question at every turn and will get his ass handed to him every time someone thinks he is "checking them out". He will be considered weak and even the fans will never accept him.
 
Yeah, there's such a tremendous advantage to being gay that I'm surprised everybody doesn't do it.:lamo

You guys on the right just don't get it, do you? How do you feel about blacks in baseball?

Sorry, that was tongue-in-cheek, should have made that more clear for you.
As for blacks in baseball, what is your problem with that?
 
Yeah, there's such a tremendous advantage to being gay that I'm surprised everybody doesn't do it.:lamo

You guys on the right just don't get it, do you? How do you feel about blacks in baseball?

Sorry, that was tongue-in-cheek, should have made that more clear for you.
As for blacks in baseball, what is your problem with that?
 
He will be ran out of the locker room. His toughness will be called into question at every turn and will get his ass handed to him every time someone thinks he is "checking them out". He will be considered weak and even the fans will never accept him.

Well that was a wonderful rant based on seemingly nothing but your own feelings towards it, but let me present a counter argument...shall I?

Even back in the 70's, when the feeling towards homosexuals was indisputably more negative than now, it wasn't some universal negative in the locker room. I mentioned Jerry Smith earlier. His roommate Brig Owens, and hall of famer Wide Reciever Charley Taylor, were two players in the locker room that knew about it and had no problem with it. Bobby Mitchell, another hall of famer that played with him, was quoted stating that after it was made public that he was homosexual that they still treated him the same as everyone else becuase he was "one of us".

Feelings on homosexuality and it's acceptance in the public sphere has only gotten better since the 70's. Even now, one can look to twitter of NFL players and see plenty of positive reactions (Example). None of those players HAD to make a tweet, none had any ability to be punished if they said nothing, this was them choosing to react positively to it in a public manner. Doesn't sound like the folks that would all get together and unquestionably run a guy out of a locker room.

Additionally, he came out already to his team in Mizzu. He already had a year of being out with players in the locker room capable of being "checked out" or wondering about his "toughness". Didn't seem like he got ran out of the locker room there, other than onto the field to become one of the best defensive players this year in the best conference in football.

And as it comes to fans...nearly 60% of people don't have an issue with homosexual relationships. Only 33% of people think homosexuality should be something that is unacceptable in society. On top of that you had fans in Philadelphia accepting Micheal Vick. You had fans in various places accepting Donte Stallworth. Baltimore fans ADORE Ray Lewis. NFL fans can "accept" a lot when it comes to a player that's on their team. I'd dare say there were FAR more negative numbers in terms of people's views on Mike Vick then there is in terms of peopels views on homosexuals.
 
I don't care what he sucks while off the field, as long as he doesn't suck on the field... ;)
 
If you want to go that route, then each individual, regardless of sexual orientation, should have a private facility, yes?

If we treat homosexuals like heterosexuals, then yes. Women have seperate facilities because men want to look at them naked. It would therefore stand to reason that homosexuals should have seperate facilities in case others want to look at them naked. Including other homosexuals. Only if anyone cares though. If no one on the team cares who they see naked or sees them naked, no need to do anything.
 
If we treat homosexuals like heterosexuals, then yes. Women have seperate facilities because men want to look at them naked. It would therefore stand to reason that homosexuals should have seperate facilities in case others want to look at them naked. Including other homosexuals. Only if anyone cares though. If no one on the team cares who they see naked or sees them naked, no need to do anything.

How about not compartmentalizing by sexual orientation?
 
Well you would be wrong, 1st All-American and a Defensive player of the year and in fact everyone who knows thinks his draft stock will slide. GMs are going on the record saying it will cause him to be draft further down the line. So.....

By the way Jason Collins, near the end of his career, doesn't have a job anymore after coming out gay. No one picked up his contract.

Collins was 50/50 based on comparable stats to other nba centers, so that's not surprising. As far as this case, if he doesn't get signed he can sue any team in a city that has ENDA protections, as well the other teams probably since the nfl absurdly gets federal subsidies. I certainly hope he doesn't sue the piss out of them if that happens.
 
Collins was 50/50 based on comparable stats to other nba centers, so that's not surprising.

Colins was at the low end of the spectrum as far as NBA centers go. he only averaged 3ppg over his career. he was at his best clogging up the middle and committing fouls to keep people from getting a clean shot off. barely good enough to stay in the league, but never good enough to start or stay with the same team for more than a couple of years.
 
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