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Thread: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Who wants to bet this dude's chances of being a first round draft pick were slim and none, yesterday?

    Like that basketball cat that came out of the closet. He'll NEVER get cut, now.
    Well, Jason Collins didn't play this year. He was a free agent and nobody signed him (yet at least). I'm not saying it's because he's gay, but obviously they aren't afraid not to hire him. To hear your version of things, you'd think they were lining up with $20 million contracts.

    So because the guy isn't a first round draft pick, it doesn't count?


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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    1. Sam wasn't going to be a first-rounder. He's projected as a mid-round pick, depending on the picking team's need. He's a solid lineman, strong as an ox but a little slow off the snap.

    2. I assume you mean Jason Collins as the "basketball cat." He's out of the league. Largely because he was never that good.
    Collins was a fine player and played for many years. Nobody's ever going to confuse him with Jordan, but he was a good backup to have on the bench.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Wouldn't be surprised if the Falcons pick him. He would probably have to transition to linebacker, but they need that pass rush desperately.
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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if the Falcons pick him. He would probably have to transition to linebacker, but they need that pass rush desperately.
    [Waiting for the awkward moment when he's got close man-to-man coverage on a tight end. Troy Aikman: "Sam was all over that tight end."]


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    This should not be considered news. I am all for gay rights. I have nothing in any way against this young man being true about himself. But it shouldn't matter. The media has no business here. Yes, he is gay. Yes, he might be the first active gay NFL player if drafted. But that does not make him any different. We need to stop polarizing this argument by making it so in your face.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Unfortunately, it IS big news in sports...and just maybe for gay men/women as well.

    In the entire history of the NFL, which is by far the most lucrative sports league in America (over 115 million watched the Super Bowl)...no active player has ever come out.

    This could begin to break down the barrier for gay athletes in high profile, professional sports...especially in America.

    I don't think this is earth-shattering...but I do think it is definitely newsworthy.
    10-1 one...THIS issue, the "It's NEWS!" issue is what is actually going to hurt him in terms of draft position, making a team, and sticking in the league. Not the issue of him being gay. The very fact that this is "News" news, not "Sports" news. The fact it's getting coverage outside the sport section of newspapers, likely will get coverage on Fox and CNN, will get talked about in magazines and other forms of media that aren't sports related....that's what's going to hurt him.

    Prior to this, he had a 3rd to 5th round grade (Note, every year there are plenty of guys with such a grade that go undrafted). Most likely he'd come in as a backup at best for the start of camp. However, because of your likely backup converted OLB you're going to have a "Tebow-esque" type of media prescense around your training camp. You're going to be having reporters not just from ESPN or the sports page, but from all other forms of news media as well. You're going to be having an entire storyline whipping around your camp that has NOTHING to really do with football and NOTHING to do with the vast majority of players on your team. This is not something that the majority of teams want.

    If I was the GM of my team at the moment there's no way I draft this guy unless it's in the LATE rounds for great value, and even then I think about it. Why? Because I don't want my team having an unncessary additional distraction. I'm in the business of winning football games, not causing social change. I don't need my training camp becoming a political hotbed. I don't need my coach being asked midseason about a backup player, or potentially being grilled because said backup player isn't on the field, etc. Could he end up being a good player? Absolutely! I wouldn't be shocked if he is. But there's a lot of potentially good players, and a lot that don't come with the same potential distraction.

    Note, the distraction I'm talking about is not that "he's gay". While there could be some issues in a locker room because of that, it wouldn't worry me as much as a GM as long as I felt the guy could handle standard NFL ribbing (something I'd want to be sure ANY player could handle. I recognize that the lockerroom is a very different environment and setting then what most people are used to, and in some ways needs to be). The distraction is the media attention...the idea of IT'S NEWS, the constant attempt to politicize it and turn it into a thing greater than the game...THAT's what I'd avoid. Again, I'm not saying that attention is misplaced or wrong...but it IS something that would reduce his appeal to me as a GM of the Skins.

    If the kid was the #1 rated OLB in the draft...a Von Miller type for instance...then you'd be more apt to take the risk of the distraction for the reward of a potential starter and impact player. THOSE types of players are hard to find. But a 3rd to 5th rounder talent that's just converting to OLB and will probably be a backup unless he just utterly shocks you? That type of player can be found without the distraction attached.

    NOW, on the flip side...in the NFL it only takes one team to make it happen. Maybe there IS a team with an ownership group that wants to make a political stand, or that thinks any publicizity and attention is good for them regardless of it's affect on the product, or that just think their infastructure is sound enough to handle the issue. New England would be a PRIME location for instance.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    [Waiting for the awkward moment when he's got close man-to-man coverage on a tight end. Troy Aikman: "Sam was all over that tight end."]
    Personally, I'd love to have a player who already has good experience in handling balls.








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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    10-1 one...THIS issue, the "It's NEWS!" issue is what is actually going to hurt him in terms of draft position, making a team, and sticking in the league. Not the issue of him being gay. The very fact that this is "News" news, not "Sports" news. The fact it's getting coverage outside the sport section of newspapers, likely will get coverage on Fox and CNN, will get talked about in magazines and other forms of media that aren't sports related....that's what's going to hurt him.

    Prior to this, he had a 3rd to 5th round grade (Note, every year there are plenty of guys with such a grade that go undrafted). Most likely he'd come in as a backup at best for the start of camp. However, because of your likely backup converted OLB you're going to have a "Tebow-esque" type of media prescense around your training camp. You're going to be having reporters not just from ESPN or the sports page, but from all other forms of news media as well. You're going to be having an entire storyline whipping around your camp that has NOTHING to really do with football and NOTHING to do with the vast majority of players on your team. This is not something that the majority of teams want.

    If I was the GM of my team at the moment there's no way I draft this guy unless it's in the LATE rounds for great value, and even then I think about it. Why? Because I don't want my team having an unncessary additional distraction. I'm in the business of winning football games, not causing social change. I don't need my training camp becoming a political hotbed. I don't need my coach being asked midseason about a backup player, or potentially being grilled because said backup player isn't on the field, etc. Could he end up being a good player? Absolutely! I wouldn't be shocked if he is. But there's a lot of potentially good players, and a lot that don't come with the same potential distraction.

    Note, the distraction I'm talking about is not that "he's gay". While there could be some issues in a locker room because of that, it wouldn't worry me as much as a GM as long as I felt the guy could handle standard NFL ribbing (something I'd want to be sure ANY player could handle. I recognize that the lockerroom is a very different environment and setting then what most people are used to, and in some ways needs to be). The distraction is the media attention...the idea of IT'S NEWS, the constant attempt to politicize it and turn it into a thing greater than the game...THAT's what I'd avoid. Again, I'm not saying that attention is misplaced or wrong...but it IS something that would reduce his appeal to me as a GM of the Skins.

    If the kid was the #1 rated OLB in the draft...a Von Miller type for instance...then you'd be more apt to take the risk of the distraction for the reward of a potential starter and impact player. THOSE types of players are hard to find. But a 3rd to 5th rounder talent that's just converting to OLB and will probably be a backup unless he just utterly shocks you? That type of player can be found without the distraction attached.

    NOW, on the flip side...in the NFL it only takes one team to make it happen. Maybe there IS a team with an ownership group that wants to make a political stand, or that thinks any publicizity and attention is good for them regardless of it's affect on the product, or that just think their infastructure is sound enough to handle the issue. New England would be a PRIME location for instance.
    That is how you would run a team.

    Not me.

    I would definitely draft this guy as early as my scouts could stomach it.

    The NFL is not a sport...it is a business in the form of a sport. It is about entertainment...not winning. The Washington Redskins are (apparently) the most valuable franchise in the NFL...and they have sucked for many, many years.

    My team already appeals to the sports lovers. That market is saturated.

    But drafting this guy will win me a whole bunch of fans and kudos from groups that previously had little love for football.

    I will get great press and help my community profile greatly.

    And at what cost...practically nothing...a mid-low draft pick.

    Win-win.


    Additionally, I personally would love to be the GM of the first NFL team to draft an openly gay player...if for no other reason then to help the complete acceptance of LGBT's into society.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-10-14 at 10:58 AM.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That is how you would run a team.

    Not me.
    Indeed. I'd run a team based of football decisions.

    You'd run a team built off marketing and political decisions.

    You're right, the Redskins are one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports. I've seen first hand for two decades what a focus on marketting and profits do. It's not pretty. Note, I've spoken as what I'd do as a GM, not an owner. Owners definitely, money is the key component for most. A GM...it's winning, because winning keeps you employed.

    But like I said, it only takes one meddlesome owner or one activist GM like you who believes that their team can do it when others can't to grab the kid...which is why it may very well not hurt him. "It only takes one" is a common thought when it comes to the draft. But I think for the vast majority of teams the RESPONSE to this revelation, rather than the revelation itself, is going to hurt him a bit.

    And I can't blame a team for that...anymore than I can blame a team for not wanting to have Tim Tebow as their 3rd string quarterback.

    You would want to play the marketting and political activism game and that'd be your right. I'd run my football team based around the notion of winning football games.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    10-1 one...THIS issue, the "It's NEWS!" issue is what is actually going to hurt him in terms of draft position, making a team, and sticking in the league. Not the issue of him being gay. The very fact that this is "News" news, not "Sports" news. The fact it's getting coverage outside the sport section of newspapers, likely will get coverage on Fox and CNN, will get talked about in magazines and other forms of media that aren't sports related....that's what's going to hurt him.

    Prior to this, he had a 3rd to 5th round grade (Note, every year there are plenty of guys with such a grade that go undrafted). Most likely he'd come in as a backup at best for the start of camp. However, because of your likely backup converted OLB you're going to have a "Tebow-esque" type of media prescense around your training camp. You're going to be having reporters not just from ESPN or the sports page, but from all other forms of news media as well. You're going to be having an entire storyline whipping around your camp that has NOTHING to really do with football and NOTHING to do with the vast majority of players on your team. This is not something that the majority of teams want.

    If I was the GM of my team at the moment there's no way I draft this guy unless it's in the LATE rounds for great value, and even then I think about it. Why? Because I don't want my team having an unncessary additional distraction. I'm in the business of winning football games, not causing social change. I don't need my training camp becoming a political hotbed. I don't need my coach being asked midseason about a backup player, or potentially being grilled because said backup player isn't on the field, etc. Could he end up being a good player? Absolutely! I wouldn't be shocked if he is. But there's a lot of potentially good players, and a lot that don't come with the same potential distraction.

    Note, the distraction I'm talking about is not that "he's gay". While there could be some issues in a locker room because of that, it wouldn't worry me as much as a GM as long as I felt the guy could handle standard NFL ribbing (something I'd want to be sure ANY player could handle. I recognize that the lockerroom is a very different environment and setting then what most people are used to, and in some ways needs to be). The distraction is the media attention...the idea of IT'S NEWS, the constant attempt to politicize it and turn it into a thing greater than the game...THAT's what I'd avoid. Again, I'm not saying that attention is misplaced or wrong...but it IS something that would reduce his appeal to me as a GM of the Skins.

    If the kid was the #1 rated OLB in the draft...a Von Miller type for instance...then you'd be more apt to take the risk of the distraction for the reward of a potential starter and impact player. THOSE types of players are hard to find. But a 3rd to 5th rounder talent that's just converting to OLB and will probably be a backup unless he just utterly shocks you? That type of player can be found without the distraction attached.

    NOW, on the flip side...in the NFL it only takes one team to make it happen. Maybe there IS a team with an ownership group that wants to make a political stand, or that thinks any publicizity and attention is good for them regardless of it's affect on the product, or that just think their infastructure is sound enough to handle the issue. New England would be a PRIME location for instance.

    Two things:

    1) His college teammates knew he was gay. These things have a habit of "coming out" in the media. If he were drafted not knowing that and it suddenly hit the press....

    2) While guys of his talent level go undrafted, sometimes they go on to make the Pro Bowl (Vontaze Burfict, for example). Think it wouldn't hit the news if a Pro Bowler hit the gay bars in Honolulu?

    It's better that they know going into this than to have to deal with the distractions later. You know it would be huge news after the fact. Now it's out there, and it's done. "OK he's gay, now let's play football."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Indeed. I'd run a team based of football decisions.

    You'd run a team built off marketing and political decisions.

    You're right, the Redskins are one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports. I've seen first hand for two decades what a focus on marketting and profits do. It's not pretty. Note, I've spoken as what I'd do as a GM, not an owner. Owners definitely, money is the key component for most. A GM...it's winning, because winning keeps you employed.

    But like I said, it only takes one meddlesome owner or one activist GM like you who believes that their team can do it when others can't to grab the kid...which is why it may very well not hurt him. "It only takes one" is a common thought when it comes to the draft. But I think for the vast majority of teams the RESPONSE to this revelation, rather than the revelation itself, is going to hurt him a bit.

    And I can't blame a team for that...anymore than I can blame a team for not wanting to have Tim Tebow as their 3rd string quarterback.

    You would want to play the marketting and political activism game and that'd be your right. I'd run my football team based around the notion of winning football games.
    Not really. I would want to balance the two.

    I am not talking about drafting this guy higher then he deserves. I am talking about drafting him where my scouts tell me he deserves to be.

    And you talk about it distracting the team?

    I happen to believe that this would be no negative distraction at all. Sure, the idiots in the locker room won't like it...but they will adjust. And if they don't, they are gone (like that semi-whacko in Miami). But I think this type of extremist view will be the vast minority. Sure football players can be pretty out there on some things...but they are human and will adjust and be better for it.


    Also, the massive pluses for community support (remember, the NFL has huge political tax exemptions and stadium perks from local/state/national politicians...it is VERY important that they have a good image) are incalculable.

    Additionally, I would feel better about myself and sleep better at night knowing I helped this cause move forward.

    Any NFL G.M. is probably already a millionaire...they don't need to sacrifice their morals/ethics to feed their families.

    And if drafting this guy gets me fired...so be it.

    I could DEFINITELY live with that.

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