Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 220

Thread: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

  1. #181
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yes i was conceding that. No one knows whether his announcement made the difference in getting a contract or not. If this all-american linebacker is not signed, however, we will all know the reason why. Gonna be interesting
    true. I was just pointing out that there isn't much similarity between the two. This guy is just starting out and was one of the best college players last year. Colins was a mediocre player at the end of his rather lackluster career. Pretty sure his age, declining performance and cost are why no one offered him a contract. But there were still those who claimed that the only reason Colins is unemployed is because he came out.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  2. #182
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,967

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    But the point people keep bringing up is that co-ed locker rooms would be completely unacceptable to current social norms and that there is a double standard here. Yes, it's indeed a rather pointless and trite concern, but that double standard doesn't simply go away due to acknowledging that homosexuals were likely there prior to coming out or that players are comfortable with this.
    Yep, it's a double standard?

    So?

    We have many double standards within our society. This isn't an argument that, with me, is going to hold any water to be quite honest.

    I would say this...

    I would have a larger issue with one straight guy in a locker room full of homosexual males. Just like I'd be more worried about one heterosexual woman in a locker room full of heterosexual males. Or a hetero man in a locker room full of hetereosexual women, though less so. The larger the group the less I'm inclined to worry about it.

    However, let me offer a counter point to your notion of sexual attraction.

    I'd suggest, typically, the issue is the notion of mutural sexual attraction. Locker room segregation begins typically at a young age, one where we generally discourage kids to be engaging in sexual activity with each other. Shoving two people who are likely to potentially reciprocate attraction together in a location where they become exposed is basically throwing gasoline on a potential fire. However, in a situation where that attraction is only realistically even possible in one direction then the changes of problems are significantly less.

    As we get older, the segregation generally continues in large part because it's a social norm and more along the lines of comfort. And I'd argue that the seperation of locker rooms is as much about comfort as it is attraction. The reality is that if a man walks into a womans locker room there's really no way for the woman not to know it's a man, and socially this has been ingrained to make for an akward and uncomfortable situation. If a lesbian woman walks in however, unless a woman knows she's a lesbian, there's no immediete expectation of an akward situation making the comfort level far different. Even with knowing she's a lesbian, for many there is a level of difference between being seen by someone who you have the potential of being attracted to as opposed to someone you don't....regardless of whether they may be attracted to you or not.

    Finally, it comes down to being rather realistic.

    When it comes to homosexuality in locker rooms our generalized options are:

    1. Get the government involve to mandate seperate locker rooms for each, and cause the government and private sector to spend money to create facilities that would be relatively sparsely used as opposed to their established ones

    2. Actively ban gays from being allowed to use current facilities while providing them nothing new

    3. Allow them to function within the locker room of their gender, where their body parts are most similar and where they most visually "fit in".

    To me, number 1 is a situation where the cure is worth than the problem. We don't need regulations about this nor do we need to be making businesses and the government spend more money in the name of a few peoples sensabilities. Number 2 is entirely unreasonable...discriminating against people due to their sexuality from being able to participate in anything that utilizes a locker room is just beyond ridiculous. So you go with number 3.

  3. #183
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep, it's a double standard?

    So?
    People were trying to justify it and explain it away with horrible arguments as opposed to simply going "so".

    We have many double standards within our society. This isn't an argument that, with me, is going to hold any water to be quite honest.
    I agree. Like I said, I find the issue trite and unimportant. That doesn't change the arguments trying to ignore or excuse that double standard are horribly flawed

  4. #184
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,967

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    People were trying to justify it and explain it away with horrible arguments as opposed to simply going "so".

    I agree. Like I said, I find the issue trite and unimportant. That doesn't change the arguments trying to ignore or excuse that double standard are horribly flawed
    And any comments on my assertion that your claim of it simply being about sexual attraction to be incorrect...and that it's about a mixture of mutural sexual attraction along with generalized comfort?

  5. #185
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And any comments on my assertion that your claim of it simply being about sexual attraction to be incorrect...and that it's about a mixture of mutural sexual attraction along with generalized comfort?
    I think you're largely making a distinction without a difference, because the issue of attraction and comfort are inherently tied together in a locker room. And on the topic of such laws being only directed at pubescent children, I really find it doubtful considering that they are put in place long before than and maintained long after words. And being that such laws have their origins in the 1800's, I think it's safe to say they developed from the prudish morality of the day

  6. #186
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:36 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,057

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    The whole "coming out" thing is just strange to me. Does liking intercourse with men require an announcement from anyone? Does it serve a purpose? Is it anyone's business? Should anyone be concerned one way or the other? Isn't it the point that people should be able to keep their private lives private?

    I don't remember Dirk Nowitzky "coming out" to tell people he liked black women before he married a black woman. I don't remember James Carville "coming out" before he married a staunch conservative. A gay man should have to announce he likes gay men to be with gay men. We all have the right to whatever in that regard.

    I understand why Michael Sam did it. Someone was about go public with it, and he wanted to control the message, which he's done just fine. People need to mind their own business.

    But overall, this constant crush of media pressure to "normalize" homosexuality is, if anything, beginning to turn straight people off more. It's not normal. Perfectly legal, and not of any great concern or business of mine, but it ain't normal. Buy a Biology book. The media seems hell-bent on it purely and solely for the purpose of needling heterosexuals, particularly those of a conservative or religious slant. There's nothing really substantive to it otherwise.

    Meanwhile, there's this codependent need among some gays to be acknowledged as "courageous" and receive some sort of reality celebrity spotlight from it all. As if having sex with a man is akin to climbing Mount Everest or something. There's nothing admirable or courageous about being gay. Sorry.

    Rant over.

  7. #187
    Wee Nyeff
    GottaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    In the now
    Last Seen
    05-23-17 @ 02:58 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,311

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    you guys are beating around the Bush here: Obviously segregated locker rooms were initially geared towards what people saw as inappropriate contact between the opposite sexes due to sexual attraction and arousal. And his point that homosexuals being in the same shower and changing area is akin to having a mixed arrangement for men and women clearly has merit.

    either address the argument or don't, but the attempt at naivety are just childish.
    He's dancing, I'm not. But it has been fun to watch.

    As far as I'm concerned, either give them all (every gender and sexual orientation) one big communal locker room, all give them all individual facilities.... proclaiming that gays or lesbians only should have their own facilities is pretty ridiculous.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

  8. #188
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,967

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I think you're largely making a distinction without a difference, because the issue of attraction and comfort are inherently tied together in a locker room.
    Again, in terms of comfort though...it's the level of ease in terms of that comfort mixed with the level of additional responsability you put on the business and/or government entity to provide accomodations.

    An assumption can be made by a woman that a woman walking into the girls locker room is probably not sexually attracted to her. It may be a wrong assumption, but it's a reasonable assumption based on the majorities within society. The same assumption can not be made when a man walks into the locker room. As such, a larger amount of controversy/distraction would occur with the other sex present, thus harming the notion of comfort far more.

    And on the topic of such laws being only directed at pubescent children
    Not suggested it's directed AT them. Rather, that those are those are the ages when one is first typically exposed to a locker room made up only of peers. And given the way society views sexual interaction at a young age, keeping them seperate is believed to be beneficial. However, by doing so, it essentially ingrains a conditioning as to what is "normal" (Boys and Girls get naked, shower, and dress seperately) which naturally...like many other things we learn consiously or subconsiously as children...play out as adults. Because of that, laws continue on beyond the younger age because it goes back to comfort and norms within society...when the majority of people are conditioned from an early age to understand boys and girls bathe and get dressed seperately, then as they get older it's more comfortable and "natural" within society to continue that function

  9. #189
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,967

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The whole "coming out" thing is just strange to me. Does liking intercourse with men require an announcement from anyone?
    Well, two things here....

    First, the "coming out thing" I think has to do generally with the fact that many are putting forward a front at one point, and as such it's basically admitting to those around them that they've been being dishonest. Take your dating black women thing.

    If you've just randomly started dating a black women, came home and said "hey pops, meet my new girlfriend" then it's no big deal.

    However, if you were constantly sneaking around and dating a number of black women over the years but making a point to make sure your parents never found out about it because you thought they'd not approve and then you finally decide to be clean with them and sit down and go "Dad, I'm seeing a black women, and I have dated a number of them over the years" then it's a bigger thing because you're basically admitting that you've been putting up a front for a long time in fear of disapproval.


    For many gay men, the whole notion of "coming out" is just finally going "lets throw it out on the table and then go from there"

    Second, in terms of private lives private with regards to the NFL...it'd be nice if that's the case, but it's not. Whether your mom's a crack addict or a whore shouldn't matter, but go tell that to Dez Bryant. Guys are asked in interviews at the combine about their sex lives and girlfriends in part to see what kind of reactions they get out of them. NFL teams want to know everything they can about a person prior to make their selection, and that includes things that reasonably should probably be private.

    Additionally, when it comes to homosexuality, it goes back to the notion in terms of "coming out". Not being open about your homosexuality is basically weaving an intricate lie. And if you have a professional organization trying to dig into your life and figure things out, an on going lie is going to ... at least ... give off some red flags of dishonesty. Something that generally is not a positive in the eyes of an employer if they can't seem to sort out WHY or about what you're being dishonest.

    A gay man should have to announce he likes gay men to be with gay men. We all have the right to whatever in that regard.
    I think it's less about a gay man announcing he likes gay men. I think it's more about a guy who people understand to be a straight man admitting he likes gay men.

    It'd be like if you have somenoe in your group of friends that goes "I LOVE METALLICA! WOOOO MEGA DEATH! SABBOTH ROCKS. METTAAAAAAL!" all the time. Then 6 months later finally goes "nope, sorry...can't do this anymore. I actually can't stand metal. Guys, I'm a barbershop quartet guy. I've just been acting like I like metal music to fit in with you. Sorry, I know I should've just admitted to liking what I liked but I wanted to fit in with you and this group so I just kind of went along with it. But I just can't keep faking it anymore, and I hope you'll like me even though I don't listen to the same music".

    Sure, the guy SHOULD've been able to just listen to his barbershop quartet music. But after acting one way for so long he felt the need to be hoenst with people before just doing "whatever in that regard". And I can kind of understand that.

    I understand why Michael Sam did it. Someone was about go public with it, and he wanted to control the message, which he's done just fine. People need to mind their own business.
    And with this sentiment, I do agree. I wish society...people on both sides...would not make such a big deal out of these thigns and just move on. The reality is that both sides seemingly love to get in others peoples business...whether it's to try and promote that business, or to try and tear down that business or the notion of it being promoted.

  10. #190
    Antichrist
    zgoldsmith23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    TN
    Last Seen
    11-06-17 @ 12:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •