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Thread: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

  1. #101
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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    It will be interesting when conflicting laws collide. The EEOC definition of sexual harassment is:
    "It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

    Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.

    Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.

    Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted)."

    All that is very loose and subjective. Right now, the women of Wellesly College are upset with a statue of a man in underwear and are threaten by his existence. The statue will probably be removed. Clearly a NFL player in the locker room has a right to not feel harassed by an openly gay teammate. And it is not your place to dictate that he should not feel harassed. This player should not be bullied into accepting an openly gay player. In fact, to criticize the offended player would be a violation of civil rights laws.

    I know that I am being ridiculous here. No court would allow it. The sexual harassment laws will be ignored in this case. But why is it anyone's concern what a person's sex life is and why is that allowable in a workplace to state one's sexual proclivities.
    You're out of your mind if you think that stating one's orientation is sexual harrassment. This is dealt with civilly in gyms, dorms, the military, and locker rooms across this country but somehow nfl players are too fragile for that? There are already gay players in the nfl, possibly on every team. They're already there!

    The only thing being advocated is they be allowed to not hide it the same way hetero athletes don't, and it's hardly bullying to insist that bullying of the gay player doesn't happen! The only way you don't make the judgment call that a person's right to be a full participant on an athletic team is if you're of the mind to say "screw the gays" every time, so that's a dam prejudiced stance to take.

  2. #102
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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    It sucks that there will be a media firestorm about this. That's what will really hurt his draft stock, and I can't really blame any GM on passing on him because of it. A huge media circus following around a likely backup all season is not something good for a team. Same reason probably why Tebow didn't get a contract even though he was probably good enough to be a competent backup. Although, watching him all season I do think he has solid starter potential and whatever team does end up drafting him might get a steal.

    It's good that this finally happened though. There needed to be a first media firestorm. Now we can get closer to the point where there won't be a huge news event every time one of the players comes out.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well that was a wonderful rant based on seemingly nothing but your own feelings towards it, but let me present a counter argument...shall I?
    No need.

  4. #104
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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    Actually there have been players saying things like they don't want to be checked out by a gay man in the showers.

    The issue of his sexuality was not something he was going to share but something a journalist was going to reveal. That said he wanted to get ahead of the story with the combine a week away. He is a solid 3rd-5th round guy because of his size, but being a 1st All-American and a defensive player of the year it will be something if he doesn't wind up in a camp regardless of sexuality but people will pass on him if there is a player of equal potential on the board because of the media circus it will likely cause. Some owner, and I am guessing it will be someone like Jim Irsay or Robert Kraft, will give him a shot.

    Now if it disrupts the locker room then he will be gone. That is a fact, because unless you can play great at that level, then it won't be worth it. If a player with Andrew Luck skills were gay, they would still be a 1st rounder.
    I'd much rather see those who allow it to be a distraction to be removed. As far as "worth it," people are entitled to basic employment rights and dignity and it would be incredibly selfish to demand the boat to not be rocked at all. It's like jackie robinson. His race could only disrupt the functionality of a team of racists. Catering to that kind of prejudice is not reasonable.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    You're out of your mind if you think that stating one's orientation is sexual harrassment.
    You are out of your mind if that is what you got out of my post.

  6. #106
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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    10-1 one...THIS issue, the "It's NEWS!" issue is what is actually going to hurt him in terms of draft position, making a team, and sticking in the league. Not the issue of him being gay. The very fact that this is "News" news, not "Sports" news. The fact it's getting coverage outside the sport section of newspapers, likely will get coverage on Fox and CNN, will get talked about in magazines and other forms of media that aren't sports related....that's what's going to hurt him.

    Prior to this, he had a 3rd to 5th round grade (Note, every year there are plenty of guys with such a grade that go undrafted). Most likely he'd come in as a backup at best for the start of camp. However, because of your likely backup converted OLB you're going to have a "Tebow-esque" type of media prescense around your training camp. You're going to be having reporters not just from ESPN or the sports page, but from all other forms of news media as well. You're going to be having an entire storyline whipping around your camp that has NOTHING to really do with football and NOTHING to do with the vast majority of players on your team. This is not something that the majority of teams want.

    If I was the GM of my team at the moment there's no way I draft this guy unless it's in the LATE rounds for great value, and even then I think about it. Why? Because I don't want my team having an unncessary additional distraction. I'm in the business of winning football games, not causing social change. I don't need my training camp becoming a political hotbed. I don't need my coach being asked midseason about a backup player, or potentially being grilled because said backup player isn't on the field, etc. Could he end up being a good player? Absolutely! I wouldn't be shocked if he is. But there's a lot of potentially good players, and a lot that don't come with the same potential distraction.

    Note, the distraction I'm talking about is not that "he's gay". While there could be some issues in a locker room because of that, it wouldn't worry me as much as a GM as long as I felt the guy could handle standard NFL ribbing (something I'd want to be sure ANY player could handle. I recognize that the lockerroom is a very different environment and setting then what most people are used to, and in some ways needs to be). The distraction is the media attention...the idea of IT'S NEWS, the constant attempt to politicize it and turn it into a thing greater than the game...THAT's what I'd avoid. Again, I'm not saying that attention is misplaced or wrong...but it IS something that would reduce his appeal to me as a GM of the Skins.

    If the kid was the #1 rated OLB in the draft...a Von Miller type for instance...then you'd be more apt to take the risk of the distraction for the reward of a potential starter and impact player. THOSE types of players are hard to find. But a 3rd to 5th rounder talent that's just converting to OLB and will probably be a backup unless he just utterly shocks you? That type of player can be found without the distraction attached.

    NOW, on the flip side...in the NFL it only takes one team to make it happen. Maybe there IS a team with an ownership group that wants to make a political stand, or that thinks any publicizity and attention is good for them regardless of it's affect on the product, or that just think their infastructure is sound enough to handle the issue. New England would be a PRIME location for instance.
    I disagree. Michael vick was a dog killer and there's been nonstop newsworthy fiascos by players who ended up on teams regardless. The fact there's *never* been an openly gay player in pro sports should indicate it's clearly about the sexuality. And what kind of "media circus" would we expect come the season opener? It'll have been months and i don't see it being a long term issue, especially if others came out after.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    As many as it takes so that it is no longer an issue of discrimination in America and until people like you get it.
    Oh, I get it; I just reject it.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    So wait.....

    Mike Sam is going to play the Will in the NFL?

    THAT is a first for sure.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    I disagree. Michael vick was a dog killer
    He was. And despite having the talent to still be on of the 32 best QB's in the NFL, the only job he got was as the 3rd string backup behind an established starter and a young high draft pick in one of the most stable franchises in the NFL at that time (Philadelphia). Michael Vick doesn't counter my argument...he makes it.

    Vick went on in later years to start, and not just start but play at an MVP level. Clearly, the TALENT was there. But the media circus that was inevitably going to follow any team that picked him up drove away potential suitors that could've used him as a starter. It took an incredibly stable organization giving him a shot well below what someone with his talent, but without the distraction, would've warranted to get him back into the NFL.

    Tim Tebow is another example. Here's a guy that helped lead his team from a losing record to a playoff birth and then playoff victory. Heisman Winner. Two time national champion. 1st round pick. And still young. He should AT LEAST be talented enough to be a 3rd stringer on some teams squad, if not the backup. However, the problem is that the media attention he drives is just way too big of a headache.

    Time and time again NFL players have bene shyed away from because the potential risk outweights the potential reward. Many instances this ties into negative media attention. Manti Te'o could be another potential argument to point to here and his drop in the draft.

    I'm not saying he doesn't get drafted. I absolutely think he does. But I also do think there are a number of organizations who, completely reasonably imho, would choose to take him off their board completely or downgrade the round because they don't feel the potential media circus is worth the potential reward of his talent on the field.

    And if he's drafted I think you'll be seeing media, including non-sports media, out at Training camp looking to ask players questions regarding it, seeking to ask coaches questions regarding his spot on the team/impact/etc, and just in general a larger prsense than normal. I imagine the preseason games, if the team has any nationally televised, will likely put some focus on him. If he ends up being a backup there may not be much come the regular season, but I wouldn't be shocked if there still was attention being driven.

    You had ESPN basically camped out at a team to give daily updates about a backup Quarterback on a bad team. I can't fathom that somehow the first openly gay player in the NFL is going to sniff little to no real media disruption.

    Now I will say...if a rash of players come out, including some that are currently active, then suddenly it becomes less of a big deal and you probably have more GM's open to taking him because the level of distraction reduces as it becomes more spread out.

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    Re: All-American college football player Michael Sam says he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So wait.....

    Mike Sam is going to play the Will in the NFL?

    THAT is a first for sure.
    You sir win the internet.

    Of course, he's going to be a converted 3-4 OLB most likely....so I really hope his middle name is Jackson.

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