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Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

Phys251 said:
If so, then more power to her. Our society NEEDS to break the silence on what is quite possibly its single most underrated social ill.
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that being crying rape when there is none.

If someone forces you to have sex with them due to a threat or use of physical violence
that is rape

If someone drugs you so you cannot resist having sex with them that is rape

If you are unconscious and someone has sex with you that is rape

if someone promises to give you something for sex and you accept-that is not rape. It might be prostitution but its not rape

if someone says they are ending a relationship with you if you don't have sex with them, that is not rape either

so this woman in the OP was not raped
 
opendebate said:
Brilliant retort G, you're in great form today
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What do you want? Should I use a few paragraphs of extraneous words? You're saying that a lack of evidence doesn't disprove a claim, when I'm telling you point-blank that it does.

You and every other defender of this lying bitch is trying to disprove a negative. Don't make me liken your claims to me claiming that dinosaurs originated from Saturn and flew here in a giant marshmallow, and making you prove me wrong.
 
opendebate said:
Brilliant retort G, you're in great form today
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Not to be a pest, but I'm still wondering what those forms of physical coercion would be. :mrgreen:
 
Phys251 said:
Good, and I hope those changes go into effect. Anti-woman attitudes such as the ones infesting this thread are the first problems that need to go. And boo-hoo, am I supposed to feel sorry for a rapist? Kind of like the Steubenville, OH and Marysville, MO rapists?
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There are no 'anti-woman' sentiments in this thread.

Don't conflate anti-feminazism and demand for proof as being anti-woman.
 
stonewall50 said:
Ending rape on campus
Student-led activists movement fights to end rape on campus - CNN.com

Well. I don't know exactly how this makes me feel. I read through the entire article and it is nice to see action. There is a problem and something needs to be done. For that I am happy.

But one of those incidents does not fit in with the rest. Espinosa's. I don't understand how that is rape? Maybe I misread it. But it just struck me somewhere as...odd. And. Maybe. A little bit off. Everyone else can someone explain that to me?
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Espinosa filed against the university a month after the relationship ended. You link opens with: "Yes, he was her boyfriend. No, he hadn't pinned her down, or threatened violence. But Espinosa insists that he coerced her, psychologically and physically, into having sex against her will for most of their three-year relationship. She resisted, told him no, pushed him away. More often than not, he persisted and she gave in "just to get it over with," she says."

Did she seek the university's counseling services in those three years? Seek help from anybody? Is she any different than millions of wives who "give in" just so they can "get it over with"? And why should the university be responsible?

This is a really atypical accusation here, and I wonder if it serves to trivialize the very real problem of drunken date rape that college campuses routinely face.
 
ChrisL said:
Not to be a pest, but I'm still wondering what those forms of physical coercion would be. :mrgreen:
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"if she doesn't give her a hummer, he won't buy her dinner"?
 
opendebate said:
I hate to resort to this but....

RAPE:
1-the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2-any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

Are we actually having the "No really means no" conversation again.
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No, you just wish we were.
 
Gipper said:
What do you want? Should I use a few paragraphs of extraneous words? You're saying that a lack of evidence doesn't disprove a claim, when I'm telling you point-blank that it does.

You and every other defender of this lying bitch is trying to disprove a negative. Don't make me liken your claims to me claiming that dinosaurs originated from Saturn and flew here in a giant marshmallow, and making you prove me wrong.
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No, I'm saying that at this point we don't know the details of her claim that she was physically and psychologically coerced either because she is unwilling to share them or they have not come out yet. That does not mean that they don't exist.

You're behavior is a little over the top given what we know for sure. A whore...really? A pissed off bitch....really? You are discrediting yourself.
 
TurtleDude said:
"if she doesn't give her a hummer, he won't buy her dinner"?
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Okay, cheapskate but not rapist! :2razz: I mean, that's worth at least dinner AND a movie.
 
ChrisL said:
Okay, cheapskate but not rapist! :2razz: I mean, that's worth at least dinner AND a movie.
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What if its a five star establishment?
 
Frankly the best way to greatly reduce rape on campus would be to ban alcohol, drugs and parties and then enforce this in a draconian fashion.


Of course, that isn't going to happen. After all, **** education, that's what college is FOR, right? :roll:



A little more realistically...

1. Arm and train the young ladies. If not guns, then tasers, ASP batons and pepperspray and Jiu-jitsu classes and brass knuckles and switchblades. :)
2. Teach them that getting ****faced drunk around people you don't know so well is a really bad idea, as is taking drugs with the same class of people.


Failing that, I dunno, maybe hire another thousand campus police and have them follow the girls around everywhere... um, wait... :doh:
 
opendebate said:
No, I'm saying that at this point we don't know the details of her claim that she was physically and psychologically coerced either because she is unwilling to share them or they have not come out yet. That does not mean that they don't exist.

You're behavior is a little over the top given what we know for sure. A whore...really? A pissed off bitch....really? You are discrediting yourself.
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Don't blame me for calling a spade a spade, sweetheart.

And yeah, the reason the claim is baseless is because "she is unwilling to share them or they have not come out yet". That's much more feasible than "bitch is lying".

She has a credibility problem, and you're giving her a voice. Who's being discredited here?
 
opendebate said:
No PHYSICAL force. But perhaps DURESS (the use of force, false imprisonment or threats (and possibly psychological torture or "brainwashing") to compel someone to act contrary to his/her wishes or interests).

I am merely trying to make the point that it can be considered rape without the use of physical force. Psychological torture or coercion can also make it rape. As for this case I don't know enough of the specifics about what this woman experienced to claim that rape did occur but neither do I know enough right now to just dismiss her claims.
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When you creatively manipulate the acknowledged definitions this way, we're left with any number of possibilities that all undermine the already notoriously difficult process of proving rape in the first place. Taking your view, we could argue that a guy who threatens to dump his girlfriend has raped her, if she gives it up to prevent him from doing so. Or that guilt could be considered as 'psychological torture'. You're really grasping at straws here.
 
NoC_T said:
When you creatively manipulate the acknowledged definitions this way, we're left with any number of possibilities that all undermine the already notoriously difficult process of proving rape in the first place. Taking your view, we could argue that a guy who threatens to dump his girlfriend has raped her, if she gives it up to prevent him from doing so. Or that guilt could be considered as 'psychological torture'. You're really grasping at straws here.
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Since there were no threats, violence or force used, maybe he hypnotized her to stay with him for 3 years and have sex with him against her will. The guy was like Svengali, and she had no control over her own body.
 
ChrisL said:
Since there were no threats, violence or force used, maybe he hypnotized her to stay with him for 3 years and have sex with him against her will. The guy was like Svengali, and she had no control over her own body.
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strong the force is upon horny college girls who want to get laid-until they decide the guy wasn't a keeper!
 
Phys251 said:
If I have to explain to a woman about rape, that would be like a white man having to explain to a black man about racism. But given your profound ignorance and denial on this topic, I may wind up having to.
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False dichotomy.

Blacks are subject to entrenched racism, expressed as a normative feature of society at every level. Women are not similarly subject to oppression and especially not rape. There's no comparison. It's a profound insult to suggest otherwise.
 
NoC_T said:
False dichotomy.

Blacks are subject to entrenched racism, expressed as a normative feature of society at every level. Women are not similarly subject to oppression and especially not rape. There's no comparison. It's a profound insult to suggest otherwise.
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blacks engage in racism far more than women engage in rape though
 
TurtleDude said:
strong the force is upon horny college girls who want to get laid-until they decide the guy wasn't a keeper!
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Yeah and I have a hard time buying that he had any kind of real psychological control over her since they didn't even live together and they didn't have any children together. The psychological and physical control aspects would have more validity if they lived together or had children together IMO.
 
ChrisL said:
Yeah and I have a hard time buying that he had any kind of real psychological control over her since they didn't even live together and they didn't have any children together. The psychological and physical control aspects would have more validity if they lived together or had children together IMO.
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I wonder how many of these women who scream rape over dubious incidents are doing so are a reaction to being called a slut or similar things? remember that white girl who claimed Kobie Bryant "raped her". No doubt in my mind what happened was her father ripped into her about being banged by a black married man and she then cried rape rather than admitting she wanted to get some NBA star to drill her hard
 
NoC_T said:
False dichotomy.

Blacks are subject to entrenched racism, expressed as a normative feature of society at every level. Women are not similarly subject to oppression and especially not rape. There's no comparison. It's a profound insult to suggest otherwise.
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Entrenched racism at every level of society? Nah.:peace
 
Gipper said:
That's not how it works around here. He has to prove he didn't rape her.

Didn't you get the memo?
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I did. It made for a cool paper plane as it sailed out the window along with all the others.
 
This is the definition of rape per the US Justice Department:
“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”
USDOJ: Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape

She claims:
Espinosa insists that he coerced her, psychologically and physically, into having sex against her will

So her claims fit the definition.

The question is, how do you prove such a thing? Is it even possible without a confession from the accused?

We may never know if what transpired between the two of them was consensual or if she was or was coerced. The problem here, in this thread, is the willingness of so many to not only immediately dismiss her claims but go on to accuse her of being a pissed off bitch and a whore. Based on what!? You are in effect doing to her exactly what you are screaming is the injustice being done to him. Why does he have such instant credibility and why does she have so little?
 
TurtleDude said:
I wonder how many of these women who scream rape over dubious incidents are doing so are a reaction to being called a slut or similar things? remember that white girl who claimed Kobie Bryant "raped her". No doubt in my mind what happened was her father ripped into her about being banged by a black married man and she then cried rape rather than admitting she wanted to get some NBA star to drill her hard
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I'm not real familiar with that incident.
 
Gipper said:
Don't blame me for calling a spade a spade, sweetheart.
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That's a cheeky little game isn't it?? Sweetheart

And yeah, the reason the claim is baseless is because "she is unwilling to share them or they have not come out yet". That's much more feasible than "bitch is lying".
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Only to the proud misogynist

She has a credibility problem, and you're giving her a voice.
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There are many reasons why a women would not want to subject herself to putting those details on public display and your leap to name calling is much more telling about you.

Who's being discredited here?
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That would be you
 
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