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Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

Yes her accusation is serious and again, you and others (including myself) may not currently have enough details to determine if it was in fact rape but neither do we have enough details to determine that it wasn't. It's like any other case. You keep an open mind until you have enough details to take a position that is informed by facts rather then your own preconceived ideas about the accused OR the accuser.

That is what I and others have been saying as opposed to some who claim she is stating the truth without evidence.
 
I will not be lectured as if I were ignorant thank you. I know perfectly well what informed consent is. That isn't even under question.

The question is this one person making contradictory statements about physical coercion that do not make sense in context.

I have not asserted that she is lying, nor have I asserted that she was not raped. I have simply asked how in the hell can there be PHYSICAL coercion as she claimed, when she also asserted he did not pin her or threaten violence (or presumably USE violence), yet asserts there was physical coercion.

I'm asking for a phrase that she used in a self-contradictory way to be resolved and explained.
When he bought her chocolates on Valentine's Day, that was coercion if not solicitation for prostitution. When he also gave her a hug, that was battery, and when he kissed er and said "I love you' that was rape.

This is what feminism has don to our country.
 
Where is the nation wide campaign to label a woman a slut in this fashion?

I have heard individuals call women sluts for whatever reason but never a nationwide campaign.

Sandra Fluke, Rush Limbaugh, post#6 in this thread. Ring a bell?
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

She has a responsibility to herself but it stops there and in noway negates the greater responsibility of the person imposing himself on her.

She stayed in the relationship three years. I agree he had no right to impose himself on her. After he did, she should have reported him to the police. If, for whatever reason, she chose not to do that, she had the option to end the relationship. If, for whatever reason, she chose not to do either -- apparently the case -- then she's a victim of both him and her own irresponsibility.:peace
 
Another significant issue that a friend reading over my shoulder brought up: consider the implications on the young man she dated. My friend is trying to hire a bunch of employees right now for summer work and one thing he does is check Facebook. Like many employers.

Now consider that this kid's name is attached to hers and now she is in the news. National news, and with the Internet that really just means global. He is now a convicted rapist without a trial. Good job CNN.

You know as I have gotten older...and the Internet/social media has too...I am starting to realize how bad it actually is.

That's why I think women who falsely cry rape should be charged with a crime. Even accusations, baseless as they may be, are damaging.

She should be tried in civil court for slander damages and, then, tried for a felony.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Excuse me?? You, sir, just condoned rape. If you are in a relationship, I hope your partner sees this post so that she or he can know to run for the hills and never look back.

Am I to understand that this woman was in a voluntary relationship for three years with this man, but suddenly he has raped her? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Why was this particular incident different from the others? Something else happened...perhaps he indicated he was going to end the relationship, and she was angry, and decided to get even, or she's just throwing out words that make her feel better about herself. I'm sorry, but if she wasn't threatened or coerced, it can hardly be called rape. And I am a woman.

Greetings, Phs251. :2wave:
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Am I to understand that this woman was in a voluntary relationship for three years with this man, but suddenly he has raped her? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Why was this particular incident different from the others? Something else happened...perhaps he indicated he was going to end the relationship, and she was angry, and decided to get even, or she's just throwing out words that make her feel better about herself. I'm sorry, but if she wasn't threatened or coerced, it can hardly be called rape. And I am a woman.

Greetings, Phs251. :2wave:

There is clearly documented evidence of people staying in abusive relationships for protracted periods of time. The fact that the average victim of domestic abuse is beaten 35 times prior to their first contact with the authorities should help to put that in perspective. They're not faking it, both the abuse and society's attitude to the abuse does things to the victim's brain. The same is true of rape.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

She stayed in the relationship three years. I agree he had no right to impose himself on her. After he did, she should have reported him to the police. If, for whatever reason, she chose not to do that, she had the option to end the relationship. If, for whatever reason, she chose not to do either -- apparently the case -- then she's a victim of both him and her own irresponsibility.:peace

I am not debating that she would have been better served had she left the relationship but that has ZERO to do with his level of responsibility if in fact more evidence becomes available to validate her claims.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

I am not debating that she would have been better served had she left the relationship but that has ZERO to do with his level of responsibility if in fact more evidence becomes available to validate her claims.

Indeed, but that's a large "if." The facts as presented here give her just about the weakest case imaginable. :peace
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Indeed, but that's a large "if." The facts as presented here give her just about the weakest case imaginable. :peace

There are virtually no facts. None of the direct quotes actually describe what happened, the description is paraphrased by the reporter.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

There are virtually no facts. None of the direct quotes actually describe what happened, the description is paraphrased by the reporter.


That's the only thing keeping me from calling nonsense on her claim: insufficient data.


But, based on AVAILABLE data, there's a lot of questions to be raised.


And not forgetting the U investigated and found her claims not substantiated...
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

That's the only thing keeping me from calling nonsense on her claim: insufficient data.


But, based on AVAILABLE data, there's a lot of questions to be raised.


And not forgetting the U investigated and found her claims not substantiated...


That's pretty much where I'm coming from -- I think it's appropriate to ask questions, I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss her out of hand. Additionally, I'm seeing responses from a number of posters who don't know a whole lot about either rape or domestic abuse.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Indeed, but that's a large "if." The facts as presented here give her just about the weakest case imaginable. :peace

The facts don't prove his guilt or confirm her accusations. I will leave the distinction of her case as "weak" to you.
 
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Re: Ending Rape On Campus

There is clearly documented evidence of people staying in abusive relationships for protracted periods of time. The fact that the average victim of domestic abuse is beaten 35 times prior to their first contact with the authorities should help to put that in perspective. They're not faking it, both the abuse and society's attitude to the abuse does things to the victim's brain. The same is true of rape.

Perhaps, but the question remains in my mind as to why she stayed in this relationship. She could have left this man years ago, but didn't. Did he provide a roof over her head, food to eat, clothes to wear? I'm sorry, but I think there's more to this than we know. I'm not judging, but a rape charge is not logical in this case. It is, however, very damning to any man so charged, and can well ruin his future. I would be interested in hearing what is finally decided.

Greetings, PracticalEvilDan. :2wave:
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

That's pretty much where I'm coming from -- I think it's appropriate to ask questions, I don't think it's appropriate to dismiss her out of hand. Additionally, I'm seeing responses from a number of posters who don't know a whole lot about either rape or domestic abuse.


Yup. I don't doubt she may well have been a victim of domestic abuse to some degree. Possibly rape, even. I know domestic abuse from the inside, as I was a victim of it, and I know how it can go on for some time.

It's just that available data seems contradictory on a claim of rape, if the article represents her actual testimony accurately. Rape in the absence of physical force or threat....
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

The facts don't prove his guilt or confirm her allegations. I will leave the distinction that her case is "weak" to you.

It's a justifiable conclusion based on the evidence available here.:peace
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Perhaps, but the question remains in my mind as to why she stayed in this relationship. She could have left this man years ago, but didn't.

That is very common in abusive relationships.

I'm sorry, but I think there's more to this than we know.

Given how little information we have, I'm sure there's more to be had, I just can't find anything.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

It's a justifiable conclusion based on the evidence available here.:peace

I didn't say you are not entitled to your opinion I just wouldn't go so far as to call it weak.
 
I can't find any more information on this case. Has anyone else been able to?
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Am I to understand that this woman was in a voluntary relationship for three years with this man, but suddenly he has raped her? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Why was this particular incident different from the others? Something else happened...perhaps he indicated he was going to end the relationship, and she was angry, and decided to get even, or she's just throwing out words that make her feel better about herself. I'm sorry, but if she wasn't threatened or coerced, it can hardly be called rape. And I am a woman.

Greetings, Phs251. :2wave:

She reported it to the campus police a month after the relationship had ended apparently.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

She reported it to the campus police a month after the relationship had ended apparently.


Yeah. I mean, he may well have been a douchebag to her. Maybe didn't treat her very well. Maybe he was pushy about sex, and talked her into stuff she didn't really want to do. Maybe she thinks that is rape... to my knowledge it is not, unless she gave him a flat out NO and he refused to stop. Even then, she could walk away if he never "pinned her down" or otherwise forced her, as she seems to have stated.

But as has been noted, available info is very limited.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Yup. I don't doubt she may well have been a victim of domestic abuse to some degree. Possibly rape, even. I know domestic abuse from the inside, as I was a victim of it, and I know how it can go on for some time.

It's just that available data seems contradictory on a claim of rape, if the article represents her actual testimony accurately. Rape in the absence of physical force or threat....

Like I said earlier, some women may have a more extreme view of what constitutes rape, but that doesn't mean it meets the standards of what would be considered to be a rape according to the law.
 
Re: Ending Rape On Campus

Yeah. I mean, he may well have been a douchebag to her. Maybe didn't treat her very well. Maybe he was pushy about sex, and talked her into stuff she didn't really want to do. Maybe she thinks that is rape... to my knowledge it is not, unless she gave him a flat out NO and he refused to stop. Even then, she could walk away if he never "pinned her down" or otherwise forced her, as she seems to have stated.

But as has been noted, available info is very limited.

Exactly my problem. She says that there was never any force involved, and I would consider that force. I don't think it's so outrageous for us to be questioning this story the way it was presented.
 
I sincerely hope that your friends, should they ever become a victim of crime, NEVER come to you for consolation. I can't imagine what this marked lack of empathy would do to them.

A ridiculous accusation. I am fair. I have several friends who have been victims of this very crime. In fact...my childhood best friend...someone I considered a brother...got into drugs, stalked, beat, raped, and attempted to kill his ex wife. I would personally put a bullet in him if I saw him.

You twist and distort my words, and you choose not to listen. You choose not to understand my differentiation between listening to someone who claims to be a crime victim vs. how I would act as a juror in that very same crime.


You didn't say you would listen to them. You said that you would believe them. And you got upset at people for questioning the validity of a questionable accusation.

This isn't about a court of law convicting someone of rape. This is about a defamation of character...by not only an individual, but a global news network. There was no trial. And as I stated in another post...within 30 seconds I found Joanna Espinosa's Facebook. How hard do you think it would be to find his name? So now...in the court of public opinion...he is guilty.
 
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