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Thread: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    And that is my rub I think. If it were an abusive relationship ok. But we don't know. Cnn convicted this kid without the whole story.
    CNN did not give the kids name...
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Ending rape on campus
    Student-led activists movement fights to end rape on campus - CNN.com

    Well. I don't know exactly how this makes me feel. I read through the entire article and it is nice to see action. There is a problem and something needs to be done. For that I am happy.

    But one of those incidents does not fit in with the rest. Espinosa's. I don't understand how that is rape? Maybe I misread it. But it just struck me somewhere as...odd. And. Maybe. A little bit off. Everyone else can someone explain that to me?
    Ending rape on campus is like a war on drugs or a war on poverty or like many of the laws passed in recent years with a misleading name attached.

    From a moral or philosophical perspective ending rape anywhere is always a good idea. But of course it cannot be done there will always be another scum bag who rapes someone. The problem is when unintended consequences arise ( and they always do ) no one will accept accountability for it because they had such a self righteous cause ( ending rape ).

    Any person who attempts to study this with an eye to being objective and perhaps being critical of the effort will be labeled as a rape defender or mysoginest or whatever. For example it is VERY typical for people attempting to address rape to exaggerate the statistics on this crime. Some have a vested interest in painting the picture that there are more such crimes than there truly are. Such exaggerations lead to unjust and draconian laws or policies on campus which do more harm than good ( the violence against women act is an example ). When those fighting against rape point out that some rapes go unreported ( which is true ) they will try to ignore that many accusations of rape are fraudulent and do as much or more harm to a person as rape itself. Yes even that statement is not allowed even though it is true. False accusations of rape can cause as much pain and harm ( or more ) as actual rape.

    No one is defending rape or trying to ignore the crime but the fact is often these sort of " movements " have other agendas and do more harm than good. As others on this thread have pointed out such people are often trying to expand the definition or rape which of course makes more crime than there is.

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    I just love how every single discussion about rape or sexual assault quickly turns into questioning the accuser's motives and not addressing the horrors of the crime. They're the only crimes where this is such a major issue.

    Stop trying to justify what her boyfriend did. If there was no informed consent, yet intercourse occurred, it was rape. Period.
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not blaming any one. Whether the investigation was done right or not I have no way of judging. She could be absolutely correct that the investigation was poorly done. I think we should stop jumping to conclusions about one case.
    But is it jumping to conclusions? There was no trial and cnn effectively called him a rapist...
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    Ending Rape On Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I just love how every single discussion about rape or sexual assault quickly turns into questioning the accuser's motives and not addressing the horrors of the crime. They're the only crimes where this is such a major issue.

    Stop trying to justify what her boyfriend did. If there was no informed consent, yet intercourse occurred, it was rape. Period.
    So what you are saying is we should just screw innocent until proven guilty, if a woman brings up allegations of rape...we should believe her...and convict the accused of rape. No trial.

    Nobody is questioning the motives of the other victims in this thread. But the woman under discussion was in a relationship with this guy for 3 years, admitted he never pinned her down/assaulted her, and her only claim is he physically and verbally coerced her into sex. A very broadly defined definition.

    We have very little information, and yet cnn just convicted this guy without investigation or trial. He has pretty much no future now where he is not considered a rapist.

    Edit:

    Ps

    I am all for victims rights and I would bring a death penalty for rapists in cases of significant evidence. So I am far from being some "pro rape blame the victim" but bag. But I do believe we shouldn't try to bring restitution for past cases where the victim was treated as if it were there fault...via conviction of anyone accused of rape and damning the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
    Last edited by blackjack50; 02-09-14 at 12:36 PM.
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I just love how every single discussion about rape or sexual assault quickly turns into questioning the accuser's motives and not addressing the horrors of the crime. They're the only crimes where this is such a major issue.
    There was no crime. That's kinda the point. Motive is central to the issue.

    Stop trying to justify what her boyfriend did. If there was no informed consent, yet intercourse occurred, it was rape. Period.
    Well, not since he didn't actually rape her. There's that. This guy won't do any jail time. Why do you suppose that is? Or has rape suddenly been made legal?

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    There was no crime. That's kinda the point. Motive is central to the issue.


    Well, not since he didn't actually rape her. There's that. This guy won't do any jail time. Why do you suppose that is? Or has rape suddenly been made legal?
    Apparently we now have to sign witnessed documentation before intercourse...
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So what you are saying is we should just screw innocent until proven guilty, if a woman brings up allegations of rape...we should believe her...and convict the accused of rape. No trial.
    That is not at all what I said. Don't insert words into my mouth. All I want is for sexual assault and rape victims to have their stories given the same deference as victims of arson, burglary, robbery, and other crimes. I find it fascinating that sexual crimes are treated differently in this regard, and I ask myself, why is that?

    Nobody is questioning the motives of the other victims in this thread. But the woman under discussion was in a relationship with this guy for 3 years, admitted he never pinned her down/assaulted her, and her only claim is he physically and verbally coerced her into sex. A very broadly defined definition.

    We have very little information, and yet cnn just convicted this guy without investigation or trial. He has pretty much no future now where he is not considered a rapist.

    Edit:

    Ps

    I am all for victims rights and I would bring a death penalty for rapists in cases of significant evidence. So I am far from being some "pro rape blame the victim" but bag. But I do believe we shouldn't try to bring restitution for past cases where the victim was treated as if it were there fault...via conviction of anyone accused of rape and damning the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
    When someone claims to have been the victim of a crime, I believe them unless I have a legitimate reason to not do so. This is not the same thing as guilty until proven innocent. Humans are not required to send every idea they have to a court of law to judge whether that idea is legit.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    There was no crime. That's kinda the point. Motive is central to the issue.
    And you know this how? You have studied this case and concluded that there definitely was no rape?

    Well, not since he didn't actually rape her. There's that. This guy won't do any jail time. Why do you suppose that is? Or has rape suddenly been made legal?
    What is the current FBI definition of rape?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Apparently we now have to sign witnessed documentation before intercourse...
    And to have it televised live in the process.

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