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Thread: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

  1. #191
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    When you provide me one of "physical coercion" that apparently excludes holding, violence or threats.
    The definition of rape depends on the presence of consent. This entire debate comes down to consent. You need to know what consent is before you can proceed.
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    I don't think anyone disagree's with this definition.

    The problem lies in many people who wish to expand the definition. For example no reasonable person would object to a charge of rape if someone were to take advantage of a person who is unconscious. Others however would call it rape if a person is conscious but drunk. If two people are drinking and they have sex which one is the rapist?

    Or in the example being discussed here in this thread. A person alleges to have been the victim of rape but will only allude to some vague claim of coercion. Possibly true? Yes! Possibly a lie? Yes !
    I think if a woman says no it means no, period. The question is, did she say no. I have no idea. Which, I think, is basically your point. There is a problem from my perspective when someone is so ready to dismiss her without knowing what the coercion involved. This implies that only physical force equals rape. Which is inaccurate.
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    If you can honestly read that and conclude that she is not alleging sexual assault, then you have just proven your unquestionable ignorance of this subject. It's because of people like you who trivialize her case that she has the right not to reveal the details. Do you have any idea about the suicide rates of rape survivors? Geez, your comments remind me of people who feel they have the right to know what is going on in everyone's bedroom. Why are you so interested, in the details, Chris? What pleasure are you missing out on by not knowing what happened? Do you have some kind of fetish that you feel needs satisfying? I'm serious about this. I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who can't understand why murdering someone is a bad thing.
    You are just wrong. She herself says she was not forced nor threatened, nor was she drugged (that would be an easy conviction). Therefore, she had consensual sex and is bitter and probably a little loopy to begin with.

  4. #194
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The point is that if the average domestic abuse victim is beaten that many times before they first seek help, it doesn't surprise me in the least that anybody else being abused in a relationship -- even if they aren't being beaten -- would wait to seek help.
    That happens all the time. Survivors of domestic violence, whether sexual assault is involved or not, often feel trapped and helpless. And police typically give them markedly less attention than they deserve.
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  5. #195
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    It's odd...


    Most of the time, if someone levies an accusation of a serious crime against another person, then makes contradictory statements about how it happened, MOST people would question whether that person's accusations were legitimate on that basis (ie that they could not seem to explain their **** straight). It would be a red flag to almost everyone.


    Unless it is an accusation of rape, apparently...

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I think if a woman says no it means no, period. The question is, did she say no. I have no idea. Which, I think, is basically your point. There is a problem from my perspective when someone is so ready to dismiss her without knowing what the coercion involved. This implies that only physical force equals rape. Which is inaccurate.
    Oh so if you say "no" but lie there spread eagle naked on the bed in front of your boyfriend, and he starts touching you and trying to get you in the mood, is that rape in your opinion?

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    If you can honestly read that and conclude that she is not alleging sexual assault, then you have just proven your unquestionable ignorance of this subject. It's because of people like you who trivialize her case that she has the right not to reveal the details. Do you have any idea about the suicide rates of rape survivors? Geez, your comments remind me of people who feel they have the right to know what is going on in everyone's bedroom. Why are you so interested, in the details, Chris? What pleasure are you missing out on by not knowing what happened? Do you have some kind of fetish that you feel needs satisfying? I'm serious about this. I feel like I'm having a debate with someone who can't understand why murdering someone is a bad thing.
    She has no case to be trivialized that is the point.

    Your stance that every or even most allegations are true is the real proof of ignorance.

    Rape is a heinous, repugnant and serious crime and the vast majority of people agree with that. The people convicted and proven to be guilty of such a crime deserve severe punishment. But as it is common also for women to make false accusations we must always be careful to withhold judgement untoil all the facts are in and until the allegation is proven.

    The conversation is more like you being akin to someone who claims murder does not even require a dead person to prove.

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    The definition of rape depends on the presence of consent. This entire debate comes down to consent. You need to know what consent is before you can proceed.
    His argument was about the contradictory nature of her accusation, which has nothing to do with the definition of consent.

    Your above post is a Non sequitur

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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Good Lord, I swear some people are just dense. SHE said there was NO FORCE and NO THREATS.
    You always seem to resort to name calling when people don't see things your way ChrisL. It's really not necessary and kind of puts the brakes on the conversation. So please stop. I hear you and understand perfectly. SHE however feels there are grounds to claim she was raped and until I hear more details about what she thinks constitutes that accusation I won't dismiss her claim any more than I will assume she is full of ****. When someone jumps immediately to discredit her based on a very limited definition of what makes rape rape I think they are pandering.
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    re: Ending Rape On Campus[W 228]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It's odd...


    Most of the time, if someone levies an accusation of a serious crime against another person, then makes contradictory statements about how it happened, MOST people would question whether that person's accusations were legitimate on that basis (ie that they could not seem to explain their **** straight). It would be a red flag to almost everyone.


    Unless it is an accusation of rape, apparently...

    It's hard to get your **** straight when you've been sufficiently traumatized. Depending on the severity of your experience and where you are in the recovery process, sometimes you don't even know where you are or who you're talking to.

    I'm not saying I automatically believe her because she said it, I'm just not automatically disregarding her for the same reason the university didn't automatically punish the man she accused.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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