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Iran sending warships close to US borders[W:623]

Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Captain America said:
The irony is, if we take a death toll tally, I do believe the U.S. would be at the top of the leader board. I firmly believe those on the receiving end of the US stick view us every bit as much of a terrorist as we view them. And they have a lot more bodies to make their case with than we do. It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. By definition, terrorism being not state sponsored or actions of a recognized military, we have the argument won by definition. But if we were to describe terrorist as "one who inflicts terror," the U.S. definitely scares the hell out of them more than they scare us.
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Of course the Nazis and the Communists are going to view us as the bad guys. Anytime we foil someone's plans, they're going to say that WE are the terrorists; be it the Brits, Spanish, Confederates, Germans, Nazis, Communists, or the Islamofacists. At the end of the day, we killed those people because THEY started trouble us, not the other way around.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

apdst said:
An American court determined that Iran is responsible for the Khobar Towers Bombing.

I never said Iran is sending ships to attack us, but it's definitely a probe to test our response.
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They have been testing our response since their little fishing boats mounted .50 cals on their bow and started shooting the paint off our hulls.

That is why, regardless of my philosophical contributions in my previous posts, I have no sympathy for Iran or whatever heavy handed pressure we, or anyone, poses upon them. I think only prudence and self-preservation keeps us from squatting them like a fat mosquito.

Truth is, and we all know it, the repercussions of a serious military attack on Iran, as the political dominoes start to fall, could lead us to a World War that would cost us a lot more in blood, treasure and grief than anything that is facing us now.

Yeah, I really want to go whup their ass. But, I know better. Dammit.

Too soon old. Too late smart.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Captain America said:
They have been testing our response since their little fishing boats mounted .50 cals on their bow and started shooting the paint off our hulls.

That is why, regardless of my philosophical contributions in my previous posts, I have no sympathy for Iran or whatever heavy handed pressure we, or anyone, poses upon them. I think only prudence and self-preservation keeps us from squatting them like a fat mosquito.

Truth is, and we all know it, the repercussions of a serious military attack on Iran, as the political dominoes start to fall, could lead us to a World War that would cost us a lot more in blood, treasure and grief than anything that is facing us now.

Yeah, I really want to go whup their ass. But, I know better. Dammit.

Too soon old. Too late smart.
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It wouldn't lead to a world war, but it would damage our strategic and economic partnerships and strengthen those of our enemies. That, and exhaust considerable resources.
 
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Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

apdst said:
Of course the Nazis and the Communists are going to view us as the bad guys. Anytime we foil someone's plans, they're going to say that WE are the terrorists; be it the Brits, Spanish, Confederates, Germans, Nazis, Communists, or the Islamofacists. At the end of the day, we killed those people because THEY started trouble us, not the other way around.
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Absolutely. And we will say the opposite. You hit the nail on the head.

I think we are right. They are equally convinced they are right.

They say this. We say that. Talk. Talk. Talk.

Funny how two people can stare at the very same sculpture and walk away with two entirely different interpretations of what they both just saw with their own eyes.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

VanceMack said:
If Iran bombing the Khobar towers (a complex I was in 2 weeks prior to the attack) is your rationale for war, then go to war. It is simply not an option to sink ships in international water without a declaration of an intent to attack. I find it kind of hard to believe you are seriously suggesting that would be appropriate.
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I don't disagree that a statement of our intentions would be appropriate, or even a declaration of war.

However, an attack on Iranian warships that are bumping our border wouldn't be "cold blooded murder" as certain hand wringers have suggested, when you consider Iran's murder of Americans in the past.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Morality Games said:
It wouldn't lead to a world war, but it would damage our strategic and economic partnerships and strengthen those of our enemies. That, and exhaust considerable resources.
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I doubt anyone in the region would shed a tear if someone took out The Islamic Republic.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

apdst said:
I don't disagree that a statement of our intentions would be appropriate, or even a declaration of war.

However, an attack on Iranian warships that are bumping our border wouldn't be "cold blooded murder" as certain hand wringers have suggested, when you consider Iran's murder of Americans in the past.
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Of course it would be. There is absolutely no way the vessels they send could withstand an unprovoked attack in international waters. It would be premeditated and would indeed be cold blooded calculated murder. It would also be an act of war. Seriously dood...there is a world of difference between what you might want to be able to fantasize about and what you should promote and advocate as the 'right' thing to do.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

apdst said:
I doubt anyone in the region would shed a tear if someone took out The Islamic Republic.
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I think Russia might take an exception to it. It might cause them to tweet another nasty gram.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

VanceMack said:
Of course it would be. There is absolutely no way the vessels they send could withstand an unprovoked attack in international waters. It would be premeditated and would indeed be cold blooded calculated murder. It would also be an act of war. Seriously dood...there is a world of difference between what you might want to be able to fantasize about and what you should promote and advocate as the 'right' thing to do.
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EXACTLY!

As much as I would like to stick it up Iran's ass, logic and the dictates of reason prevent me from promoting such an action.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

VanceMack said:
Of course it would be. There is absolutely no way the vessels they send could withstand an unprovoked attack in international waters. It would be premeditated and would indeed be cold blooded calculated murder. It would also be an act of war. Seriously dood...there is a world of difference between what you might want to be able to fantasize about and what you should promote and advocate as the 'right' thing to do.
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You're on this one, bro. Attacking those boats would be 1) a response to past aggression an 2) a safegaurd against a nuclear attack in the future.

The Iranians don't need a sophisticated delivery system to detinate a nuke in the US. The ship itself could be the delivery system.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Captain America said:
I think Russia might take an exception to it. It might cause them to tweet another nasty gram.
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The Russians can't even provide potable water and flushable toilets for the Olympics, so...
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Captain America said:
EXACTLY!

As much as I would like to stick it up Iran's ass, logic and the dictates of reason prevent me from promoting such an action.
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Logic and reason dictate that a strong response is necessary.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

If the Navy were concerned about it, they would send a flotilla out to escort them.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

This is just an example hollow saber-rattling that Iran's leaders are engaging in in order to look tough on America, its no coincidence they are doing this right after a preliminary deal with the US. People seem to forget that we placed and kept a ruthless dictator in power in Iran for years, much of the Iranian populace is still angry at us for that. From a unbiased point of view, we do seem to have a compulsive need to meddle in the Middle East (a lot of it unwarranted, I may add. Such as Iraq), but Iran is different, in my opinion. If Iran made Nukes, that would upset the delicate balance of power in the region, and potentially create a mini- nuclear arms race in the Middle East, which would NOT be good in such a volatile region. To get back to the point, Iran's Leaders need to look like they are staring us down if they are to keep popular support, and continue negotiations. It would be best to let their pitiful excuse of a fleet sail around a bit and go home to be congratulated for their "daring actions".
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

MMC said:
Mornin' LMR. :2wave: I would hope people really don't think Iran is making any other move than a game of brinksmanship. They know Congress still wants to impose sanctions. But Iran also knows those Europeans have those billions invested into their country. Its another reason why the play like they do.

Iran also knows there is nothing we can do to them if they are international waters.....to do so would create an incident where if they do nothing wrong and are attacked by us, it would be an act of War. Unprovoked.

Yes they figure our President is weak and so to any other leaders.....which is also why they are sending these ships.

Does any think for one moment if none of the sanctions were removed, and they didn't get that money open up to them. That they would have sent a couple ships around to scope our coast with a training exercise?

Also since they are with the BRIC Nation.....I don't think they will have any trouble finding a port to pull into while in the western hemisphere.
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It's pretty simple, they are testing the depth of our president's weakness, but even he and the morons he appointed would have to deal with the Iranians if they attempt to breach our waters, our own people will deal with them if they tried to land on our shores and then the politicians responsible would be held accountable for any losses, and they know it.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Navy Pride said:
They would not have tried this under president Bush.
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9/11 and 13 Benghazi like incidents occurred during the Bush era. Some people are just short on respect, no matter the President.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Democrat152 said:
9/11 and 13 Benghazi like incidents occurred during the Bush era. Some people are just short on respect, no matter the President.
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But Bush actually responded to those incidents and didn't spend eight years blaming Clinton's failed terrorist policies for 9-11 and no American embassy was completely overrun and occupied. In fact almost all of the attacks upon American embassies during the Bush administration happened on the other side of the embassy wall. Mostly car bombings that didn't happen on the embassies compounds.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

VanceMack said:
Then the time to respond would be then, correct?
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Do you think Obama would do that? He has all the ships Commanders hands tied.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

LaMidRighter said:
It's pretty simple, they are testing the depth of our president's weakness, but even he and the morons he appointed would have to deal with the Iranians if they attempt to breach our waters, our own people will deal with them if they tried to land on our shores and then the politicians responsible would be held accountable for any losses, and they know it.
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Unless they landed in New York City.

If they landed in San Francisco, the city would probably call for a national holiday as soon as they surrendered and lowered the Stars and Stripes.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Democrat152 said:
9/11 and 13 Benghazi like incidents occurred during the Bush era. Some people are just short on respect, no matter the President.
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Speak for yourself. I have all the respect in the world for President Bush and I believe history will prove me right.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Captain America said:
The irony is, if we take a death toll tally, I do believe the U.S. would be at the top of the leader board. I firmly believe those on the receiving end of the US stick view us every bit as much of a terrorist as we view them. And they have a lot more bodies to make their case with than we do. It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. By definition, terrorism being not state sponsored or actions of a recognized military, we have the argument won by definition. But if we were to describe terrorist as "one who inflicts terror," the U.S. definitely scares the hell out of them more than they scare us.
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Its not simply a body count-its about why those bodies are there.

Some of us think its fine bombing civilians and funding terrorists, others dont. Theres a difference, even if you dont think there is.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

apdst said:
An American court determined that Iran is responsible for the Khobar Towers Bombing.

I never said Iran is sending ships to attack us, but it's definitely a probe to test our response.
Click to expand...

And a propaganda stunt so these thugs can tell their people that we have no balls.

Appeasement never works in this region, they only respect strength.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Democrat152 said:
This is just an example hollow saber-rattling that Iran's leaders are engaging in in order to look tough on America, its no coincidence they are doing this right after a preliminary deal with the US. People seem to forget that we placed and kept a ruthless dictator in power in Iran for years, much of the Iranian populace is still angry at us for that. From a unbiased point of view, we do seem to have a compulsive need to meddle in the Middle East (a lot of it unwarranted, I may add. Such as Iraq), but Iran is different, in my opinion. If Iran made Nukes, that would upset the delicate balance of power in the region, and potentially create a mini- nuclear arms race in the Middle East, which would NOT be good in such a volatile region. To get back to the point, Iran's Leaders need to look like they are staring us down if they are to keep popular support, and continue negotiations. It would be best to let their pitiful excuse of a fleet sail around a bit and go home to be congratulated for their "daring actions".
Click to expand...

They are staring Obama down....Why can't you see that? They have no fear of the man
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

US Conservative said:
And a propaganda stunt so these thugs can tell their people that we have no balls.

Appeasement never works in this region, they only respect strength.
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The strength that President Bush showed...Why can't the left see that?
 
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