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Iran sending warships close to US borders[W:623]

Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Why? Because I don't boast of my service like you do? Because I don't pretend that because I served in the military I obviously know more than anyone who disagrees with me like you do? Because I don't mindlessly endorse anything pro-military related just because it's pro-military related even when it doesn't make sense like you do? Some people served honorably and don't try to act like it makes them somehow more knowledgeable about military matters than others. Military service only qualifies you to speak on the exact job you did and your anecdotal experiences. Pretending you understand strategic and geopolitical issues simply because you were in Vietnam is extremely transparent. The information you post betrays your level of understanding of those issues.

I have a DD214 to prove my service. I have a complete copy of my 201 file. Did my basic and AIT at Ft. Benning GA., Sand Hill barracks. Did my MP training at Ft. Leonard Wood. You're online bravado and CIB avatar don't impress me. The posts you make give reasonable people concern over your state of mind. You may live under the illusion that you impress people with your military credentials but seriously, nobody can be sure about anybody else with regard to the truth on these forums. So far I am no more convinced you are a combat vet than any other poster. You seem to go too far in making sure people get the word you served. Maybe you think it serves as a qualifier for your irrational rants. Who knows?

First off, I don't boast my service. I didn't even mention my service in this thread. You're the one with the personal attacks--making the thread about me, vice the topic, as usual. If you hadn't referred to me as an "armchair general", I wouldn't even have asked, so look in the mirror when you want someone to complain about.

That being said, during my service I learned what a "probe" is, or it could be a "reconnaissance in force". Conventional wisdom dictates that he should be treated as such and met with the appropriate response. Prudence dictates that we should consider this a dry run, to see how hard it would be to deliver a nuke to, or within close proximity of the US coastline.

This isn't just a day cruise. There are hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean, where the Iranian navy can train and never come within a few thousand miles of the United States. But, does that matter to some folks? Of course not, they hate America and encourage any country in the world to challenge us.

Now, troop, get with the program and discuss the topic. A real 11 bang-bang doesn't do all the poor mouthin'.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

We have a history of rejecting any kind of normalization of relations with Iran. Our rebuff of their offer to assist in dealing with Al Qaeda and Iraq after 9/11 is a prime example. American hubris under the Bush administration all but murdered any chance of rescuing any kind of civil relationship with Iran.

And before the "'MURICA!" crowd starts in, no I don't believe we should have slapped them in the face like we did. Their government may be belligerent towards the west but there is a population in that country that needs to see that the U.S. doesn't hate Iran, we simply disagree with their government...as much of their populace does.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Ahh, those are the new ships of the Iranian Navy. They are glass-bottomed boats. I know, sounds insane, but they built them so they can look down at the old Iranian Navy. LOL.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

That being said, during my service I learned what a "probe" is, or it could be a "reconnaissance in force". Conventional wisdom dictates that he should be treated as such and met with the appropriate response. Prudence dictates that we should consider this a dry run, to see how hard it would be to deliver a nuke to, or within close proximity of the US coastline.

This isn't just a day cruise. There are hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean, where the Iranian navy can train and never come within a few thousand miles of the United States. But, does that matter to some folks? Of course not, they hate America and encourage any country in the world to challenge us.

Are they our territorial waters? Are the committing acts of piracy? If not there is no legal rationale for sinking them, and quite frankly it'd be an act of war on our part.

They have as much right to be in the Atlantic as we do in the Persian Gulf.

It's not a matter of hating the United States or any such stupidity. We cannot act in one fashion and demand others differently.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Iran's ****ed up but I don't view them as the 'bad guy'. At least not any more so than we are. To date, the US remains the only nation on earth who ever deployed nukes against anyone else. This controversy is always sickeningly hypocritical. We have nukes up the ass but anyone else who wants them is a 'threat' whereas we're the 'good guys'. Ya know, because our nukes explode with the scent of jasmine and shower the earth in love and peace. Same **** with North Korea. You can't militarily **** with a nuclear nation. That's the top and bottom of it. There's nothing else.

Power politics BS.

Great post, IMO.

I LOL'd at the jasmine part.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Are they our territorial waters? Are the committing acts of piracy? If not there is no legal rationale for sinking them, and quite frankly it'd be an act of war on our part.

They have as much right to be in the Atlantic as we do in the Persian Gulf.


Should we wait until they float a nuke into Hampton roads? Or should we make a show of force, now, and discourage them from trying to float a nuke into Hampton Roads?

It's not a matter of hating the United States or any such stupidity. We cannot act in one fashion and demand others differently.

Good thing we didn't take that attitude in 1941, or during The Cold War. What would the world look like, if we hadn't? It would be Purdy ****ed up.

I would probably agree with you, if we weren't talking about a rogue regime, with a hair trigger, that maintains it's own terrorist army. Iran is no different than Nazi Germany. We should learn from history and treat them accordingly.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

First off, I don't boast my service. I didn't even mention my service in this thread. You're the one with the personal attacks--making the thread about me, vice the topic, as usual. If you hadn't referred to me as an "armchair general", I wouldn't even have asked, so look in the mirror when you want someone to complain about.
I called you an armchair warrior because that's what you are. You are advocating starting a shooting war for absolutely no reason. One which you would never have to participate. If we were to sink Iranian naval vessels in international waters because they "might" be trying to feel the edges of the box so to speak we would be responsible for setting off a new wave of anti-American hate (and it would be justified) and even more violence. People other than just those Iranian soldiers would die. The U.S. sails wherever it wants with impunity because nobody else can **** with us. Last time I checked we were directly responsible for a lot more death and destruction in middle east and Africa than Iran was.

Your suggestion is irrational.

That being said, during my service I learned what a "probe" is, or it could be a "reconnaissance in force". Conventional wisdom dictates that he should be treated as such and met with the appropriate response. Prudence dictates that we should consider this a dry run, to see how hard it would be to deliver a nuke to, or within close proximity of the US coastline.

This isn't just a day cruise. There are hundreds of thousands of square miles of ocean, where the Iranian navy can train and never come within a few thousand miles of the United States. But, does that matter to some folks? Of course not, they hate America and encourage any country in the world to challenge us.
So? If they don't enter our territorial waters they have every right to cruise wherever they want. There is nothing new about anti-American rhetoric. We bring a lot of it on ourselves. And before you run your suck about liberals hating America or the military or some such bull**** let me stop you. Critical examination of our past misdeeds is essential to fixing this nation. The military is an extension of civilian crafted foreign policy. Poor foreign policy has resulted in the thousands of U.S. casualties. Not to mention scores more civilian casualties and tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars in property damage in foreign countries. There is a reason so many people around the world see the U.S. as the biggest threat to world peace.

Now, troop, get with the program and discuss the topic. A real 11 bang-bang doesn't do all the poor mouthin'.
Don't give me that ****. Calling you out for your absurdity has nothing to do with being a real infantry soldier. In fact, common sense and reason are positive qualities in an 11B. They should be required before you are allowed to wear the blue cord.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Should we wait until they float a nuke into Hampton roads? Or should we make a show of force, now, and discourage them from trying to float a nuke into Hampton Roads?



Good thing we didn't take that attitude in 1941, or during The Cold War. What would the world look like, if we hadn't? It would be Purdy ****ed up.

I would probably agree with you, if we weren't talking about a rogue regime, with a hair trigger, that maintains it's own terrorist army. Iran is no different than Nazi Germany. We should learn from history and treat them accordingly.

Floating a nuke into Hampton Roads means they've entered our waters without permission. That's a different scenario.

The problem I have here is twofold. First there are International norms - call them laws - that we've agreed to. We can't simply ignore our obligations under them just because we feel like it.

Secondly our justification for doing can very easily be turned on it's head and used by the Iranians to attempt to sink our ships in the PG. And our ships objectively pose a much greater risk to Iran than theirs do to us.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Only a Libbo would call it murder.

No, attacking the ships of a country that we are not at war with for the purpose of killing their sailors is murder.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Should we wait until they float a nuke into Hampton roads? Or should we make a show of force, now, and discourage them from trying to float a nuke into Hampton Roads?



Good thing we didn't take that attitude in 1941, or during The Cold War. What would the world look like, if we hadn't? It would be Purdy ****ed up.

I would probably agree with you, if we weren't talking about a rogue regime, with a hair trigger, that maintains it's own terrorist army. Iran is no different than Nazi Germany. We should learn from history and treat them accordingly.

So you want to sink them? They are in international waters and there is no state of war with Iran...and you want to sink a small frigate and it's support ship?

Is that what you want to do?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

So you want to sink them? They are in international waters and there is no state of war with Iran...and you want to sink a small frigate and it's support ship?

Is that what you want to do?

Why don't we see the same consternation over Iran's murder of Americans?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

No, attacking the ships of a country that we are not at war with for the purpose of killing their sailors is murder.

Like the Khobar Towers? Was that murder, too?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Floating a nuke into Hampton Roads means they've entered our waters without permission. That's a different scenario.

The problem I have here is twofold. First there are International norms - call them laws - that we've agreed to. We can't simply ignore our obligations under them just because we feel like it.

Secondly our justification for doing can very easily be turned on it's head and used by the Iranians to attempt to sink our ships in the PG. And our ships objectively pose a much greater risk to Iran than theirs do to us.

By then, it's too late. Don't you see that?

it would be much smarter to head them off several hundred miles away from our coastline and send a clear message that they won't be allowed to approach any closer.

Allowing them to patrol, 12.5 miles offshore is stupid.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

In other news, a man's penis was 2 inches away from a woman's vagina.

Not really a story if it doesn't go in huh?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Why don't we see the same consternation over Iran's murder of Americans?

So is that a 'yes' or a 'no', please?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Like the Khobar Towers? Was that murder, too?

Yes. Just like murdering sailors from Iran would be. What in the hell is your point? Are you that paranoid that you feel murder is justified because an Iranian destroyer and a helicopter supply ship might come near U.S. territorial waters?
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Yes. Just like murdering sailors from Iran would be. What in the hell is your point? Are you that paranoid that you feel murder is justified because an Iranian destroyer and a helicopter supply ship might come near U.S. territorial waters?

Iran is a terrorist state. They earned it.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Should we wait until they float a nuke into Hampton roads? Or should we make a show of force, now, and discourage them from trying to float a nuke into Hampton Roads?



Good thing we didn't take that attitude in 1941, or during The Cold War. What would the world look like, if we hadn't? It would be Purdy ****ed up.

I would probably agree with you, if we weren't talking about a rogue regime, with a hair trigger, that maintains it's own terrorist army. Iran is no different than Nazi Germany. We should learn from history and treat them accordingly.

So because one day they might have a nuclear weapon, might develop miniaturization technology, might develop suitable naval surface to surface delivery systems, might send a ship towards the United States, and then because they might against all possible odds hurl a nuclear weapon at a US city we should start wantonly bombing Iranian vessels that are just near our territorial waters?

I'm an extremely hawkish unreconstructed neoconservative and this is just dumb super-patriotism at its worst.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Face it folks. Some of our colleagues cannot resist promoting war. They are not alone. Many people of the neocon mentality cannot resist an excuse to go to war.

No thread at Debate Politics will ever change that.

We should just be happy in knowing that these people are not currently in power, pulling the war strings, and content in knowing that cooler head's are. For now, anyways.

So, don't let a few war dogs ruin your day. They are free to believe in what they want to believe, as we all are. What's important is that their sabre rattling is limited to a webpage such as Debate Politics thus rendering them insignificant and harmless.

Have a great day everyone.
 
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Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Like the Khobar Towers? Was that murder, too?

We barely know who was responsible. There is massively conflicting evidence over the exact identity of the attackers, let alone their would be state sponsors. Moreover even if we did have resounding evidence of Iranian culpability we are a responsible hegemonic democracy, we don't retaliate by wantonly slaughtering people at sea and then say "By the way this was for the Khobar Towers 20 years ago".

We prepare our retaliation, we plot possible consequences, we organize our contingencies, and then we act and we always make clear why we acted.

We aren't god damn pirates.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Afraid to answer the question, huh?

As soon as you answer mine, I will be pleased to answer yours (as soon as you give me a specific, real world example).
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

Iran is a terrorist state. They earned it.

Yeah, that's what the terrorists say about us when they justify their murderous activities. You want to put us on the same level as them. Priceless.
 
Re: Iran sending warships close to US borders

You're delusional. You always have been. You're a prime example of why this country needs to invest in better mental health care for it's elderly.

11B Infantry, 95B Military Police. Middle East three times, Africa once, Central America twice.

Try again.

I was in Central America a few times, got deported twice.
 
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