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Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled[W:121]

Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

that is absolutely the best place for him as he has only offered opinion through the whole thread. I think on ignore he goes for me as well.

another posted lie the OP link and PDF are the FACTS that were pointed out and prove your posts wrong as pointed out by many posters. We are still waiting for you to answer the questions you keep dodging.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

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I have grown tired of reading opinions, now I no longer have to.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

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I have grown tired of reading opinions, now I no longer have to.

once again i havent presented any opinions, if you disagree please identify the opinion below and use facts to prove its just my opinion.

the OP and PDF does NOT show the drivers were high at the time of the accident. FACT
the OP and PDF does NOT show the accident was cause by the driver that had weed in his system. FACT
the OP and PDF does NOT show that when the accident was cause by the driver that had weed in his system that it was because of the impairment. FACT

which one is opinion, please point it out and then prove its opinion, id love to read it.
Otherwise i accept your concession.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

I wouldn't accept your first statement because alone, they claimed there was a 13 times increase when alcohol was present and then with alcohol and marijuana it was 24 times - it's not cumulatively 37 - 24 includes both.

I would agree, not being a scientist, that it's possible that marijuana triggers some increased level in alcohol to impair the user, the same way some drugs impact the effectiveness of other drugs when taken in combination. But even so, it would indicate that marijuana, when taken with alcohol, makes alcohol consumption exponentially more dangerous when it comes to impaired driving.

I didn't notice any indication that there is a separate category of fatal accidents of marijuana users who didn't also have some level of alcohol in their system, which I may have missed, but it also may indicate that marijuana use, on its own, has not been shown to be a contributor to impairment causing fatal accidents.

There will never be pure science perfection to the results of such studies. I would say, from a personal perspective, it seems logical to me that anything that alters your normal state has the potential to adversely affect your ability to operate a vehicle.

Respectfully, there's a causative issue.

The data reviewed could not provide correlation.

Pot is detectable from a week or so to a couple months. "Impairment" lasts a few hours.

If alcohol could be detected for weeks, would you accept the drinks you had two weeks ago being considered a contributing factor to something that happened today? Of course you wouldn't, that would be ridiculous.

But that is EXACTLY what this study does. Impairment "Levels" of THC are JUST NOW being established, and there is no indication that this study used any such. Studies and statistics of this type have been coming out for years, conflating detectable amounts and impairment. NONE of them can be valid without distinguishing between detectability and impairment.

Any more than finding beer cans in your trash proves you are driving under the influence.

Do you know honestly believe pots effects last for weeks?
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Respectfully, there's a causative issue.

The data reviewed could not provide correlation.

Pot is detectable from a week or so to a couple months. "Impairment" lasts a few hours.

If alcohol could be detected for weeks, would you accept the drinks you had two weeks ago being considered a contributing factor to something that happened today? Of course you wouldn't, that would be ridiculous.

But that is EXACTLY what this study does. Impairment "Levels" of THC are JUST NOW being established, and there is no indication that this study used any such. Studies and statistics of this type have been coming out for years, conflating detectable amounts and impairment. NONE of them can be valid without distinguishing between detectability and impairment.

Any more than finding beer cans in your trash proves you are driving under the influence.

Do you know honestly believe pots effects last for weeks?

ding ding ding
more facts and common sense pointing out the meaninglessness of the OP and PDF
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Respectfully, there's a causative issue.

The data reviewed could not provide correlation.

Pot is detectable from a week or so to a couple months. "Impairment" lasts a few hours.

If alcohol could be detected for weeks, would you accept the drinks you had two weeks ago being considered a contributing factor to something that happened today? Of course you wouldn't, that would be ridiculous.

But that is EXACTLY what this study does. Impairment "Levels" of THC are JUST NOW being established, and there is no indication that this study used any such. Studies and statistics of this type have been coming out for years, conflating detectable amounts and impairment. NONE of them can be valid without distinguishing between detectability and impairment.

Any more than finding beer cans in your trash proves you are driving under the influence.

Do you know honestly believe pots effects last for weeks?

Yeah if what you were saying it true it would not keep you from obtaining a job at Toyota, but it does. The liability is not worth the risk.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Respectfully, there's a causative issue.

The data reviewed could not provide correlation.

Pot is detectable from a week or so to a couple months. "Impairment" lasts a few hours.

If alcohol could be detected for weeks, would you accept the drinks you had two weeks ago being considered a contributing factor to something that happened today? Of course you wouldn't, that would be ridiculous.

But that is EXACTLY what this study does. Impairment "Levels" of THC are JUST NOW being established, and there is no indication that this study used any such. Studies and statistics of this type have been coming out for years, conflating detectable amounts and impairment. NONE of them can be valid without distinguishing between detectability and impairment.

Any more than finding beer cans in your trash proves you are driving under the influence.

Do you know honestly believe pots effects last for weeks?

The "causative issue" you refer to is also a problem when it comes to alcohol and/or other drugs other than marijuana. It's true also that alcohol does not immediately exit the bloodstream once impairment is no longer an issue, nor does alcohol affect every individual in the same way and impact ability to function in the same way, but it doesn't change the fact that societies, at least those where such laws exist, determine what level of presence of a substance is believed to indicate impairment is likely and societies like to err on the side of caution when it comes to protecting innocents against dangerous behaviour of others.

And again, as I said before, there are no studies that show to a certainty that x level of blood alcohol in a person's system is definitive of impairment or that determines to a certainty that where alcohol is present in a person's system, that alcohol level caused an accident. Likewise, you'll never see such a study for any other drug, including marijuana.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

21 pages and the facts still remain

the Link in the OP and the PDF dont show anything more than recently there have been more people with weed present in their system, this fact wont change

anything else is a guess and opinion
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Yeah if what you were saying it true it would not keep you from obtaining a job at Toyota, but it does. The liability is not worth the risk.

So now insurance company risk reduction is scientific proof unto itself?

If alcohol remained in your system long enough to test they wouldn't let you do that either.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Yeah if what you were saying it true it would not keep you from obtaining a job at Toyota, but it does. The liability is not worth the risk.

not true at all thats nonsense it keeps you from getting a job cause its illegal and or drug policies.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

The "causative issue" you refer to is also a problem when it comes to alcohol and/or other drugs other than marijuana. It's true also that alcohol does not immediately exit the bloodstream once impairment is no longer an issue, nor does alcohol affect every individual in the same way and impact ability to function in the same way, but it doesn't change the fact that societies, at least those where such laws exist, determine what level of presence of a substance is believed to indicate impairment is likely and societies like to err on the side of caution when it comes to protecting innocents against dangerous behaviour of others.

And again, as I said before, there are no studies that show to a certainty that x level of blood alcohol in a person's system is definitive of impairment or that determines to a certainty that where alcohol is present in a person's system, that alcohol level caused an accident. Likewise, you'll never see such a study for any other drug, including marijuana.

Ah NORML.

Marijuana and Driving: A Review of the Scientific Evidence

I know you'll hate the source, but check the sources sources.

Seems there is quite a bit of research by real scientists that has all come to the same conclusion.

And it is pretty much the opposite of the impression the OP piece was designed to leave.

Its not the first time either. More than once the Drug Warriors have ordered studies about the dangers of pot and when the results came back with an answer they didn't like they simply chucked it and ordered another they did like.

An honest broker confronted with two studies of the same subject with opposite results would commission at least a third to determine which is correct. That's not what happened.

The drug war is politically and economically entrenched. Powerful interests stand to lose lots of power and money if it ends. Pot is the "poster child". If they lose that, the "gravy" goes away. Pharmacy companies take big losses. (Pot reduces the physical effects of stress. Red eyes is a side effect of relaxation of the smooth walled muscles. How much profit do pharmacy companies stand to lose on drugs treating stress and its resultant conditions when effective medicine can be grown in your backyard for free?).

Even the govts. Anti drug site finally admits pot is medicine, while still trying to maintain that it is so dangerous that it must remain in the hands of big pharmacy and only be obtainable at great expense.

There hasn't been any nobility in the drug war for a long time. Only the longest of ostrich necks could possibly still believe it is a noble effort honorably executed.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

You test positive for marijuanna days after smoking and in some people it could be weeks. So to answer your question, yes. Yes we are talking about days.

I actually posted a link pages ago that says you could test positive many weeks after your last joint. So it could show up in your urine, but the active ingredient to make you high is gone.

I would hope that we are not seriously debating that a joint that someone smoked on Groundhog day could cause a car wreck on Valentines day? Because in that length of time it is possible to have someone test positive.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Ah NORML.

Marijuana and Driving: A Review of the Scientific Evidence

I know you'll hate the source, but check the sources sources.

Seems there is quite a bit of research by real scientists that has all come to the same conclusion.

And it is pretty much the opposite of the impression the OP piece was designed to leave.

Its not the first time either. More than once the Drug Warriors have ordered studies about the dangers of pot and when the results came back with an answer they didn't like they simply chucked it and ordered another they did like.

An honest broker confronted with two studies of the same subject with opposite results would commission at least a third to determine which is correct. That's not what happened.

The drug war is politically and economically entrenched. Powerful interests stand to lose lots of power and money if it ends. Pot is the "poster child". If they lose that, the "gravy" goes away. Pharmacy companies take big losses. (Pot reduces the physical effects of stress. Red eyes is a side effect of relaxation of the smooth walled muscles. How much profit do pharmacy companies stand to lose on drugs treating stress and its resultant conditions when effective medicine can be grown in your backyard for free?).

Even the govts. Anti drug site finally admits pot is medicine, while still trying to maintain that it is so dangerous that it must remain in the hands of big pharmacy and only be obtainable at great expense.

There hasn't been any nobility in the drug war for a long time. Only the longest of ostrich necks could possibly still believe it is a noble effort honorably executed.

I can appreciate this and I don't disagree with much here - motive is always a concern when it comes to "interpreting" scientific "evidence" that lacks quantitative and qualitative certainties.

Being almost 60, and having lived through a time when smoking pot was initially widespread and "normal", I can say anecdotally that marijuana does indeed impair some people's physical and mental abilities while under the influence. That's all we're taking about here. There isn't a move to make alcohol illegal and I don't think this study is looking to make legalization of marijuana more difficult - it's simply pointing out that it can influence physical capacity and mental acuity and people who participate should avoid driving cars while under the influence of either or both.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

I fully understand, unfortunatley the guys here that are only offering opinion and have not documented that everyone of them in the study only had it in their system. You are failing to comprehend that.

No. From what I am reading people are explaining that because a person has weed in their system it does not mean that weed played a role in the accident. The article in the OP is trying to state that it did. There is absolutely no information that indicates that it did. None of us, not you, not me, not the people who worked on that study or that article know. The only thing that we know is that at some point in the last month those people had smoked pot. I think most people would agree driving while high would be a terrible choice. I don't think anyone is arguing that. However, being high and having pot in your system are not the same thing.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Shocking! I wonder how much that nugget of wisdom costs to conduct?.....
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Shocking! I wonder how much that nugget of wisdom costs to conduct?.....

Probably nothing more than the money we already spend collecting these stats. Though the article is misleading because the numbers they report don't prove that marijuana had anything to do with the accident, only that the individual tested.positive for it.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

The ONLY difference is that alcohol does not stay in your system pay 48 hours... even if the effects wore off after 5-10 hours ( depending on how much was ingested).

But hey, your the one giddy over people dying...

Actually, marijuana stays in your system for up to 30 days, so this story is ridiculous.

NEWS FLASH FROM CBS - A marijuana user has been arrested for DUI, due to a joint he smoked last month. LOL.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Probably nothing more than the money we already spend collecting these stats. Though the article is misleading because the numbers they report don't prove that marijuana had anything to do with the accident, only that the individual tested.positive for it.

Still too much....Here I'll give you a conclusion that won't cost the taxpayers a dime....Are you ready?

"Driving anything under the influence of any intoxicant shows higher incidents of fatality"

there now that we have dispensed with the obvious....
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Still too much....Here I'll give you a conclusion that won't cost the taxpayers a dime....Are you ready?

"Driving anything under the influence of any intoxicant shows higher incidents of fatality"

there now that we have dispensed with the obvious....

Depends. If talking probability you're likely OK with that statement. If talking proof, then no since there's no measurement. You'd have to take measurements to gather proof and that may cost a bit more than a dime.

Really what it does say is that we shouldn't have all these specialized laws like drunk driving and blah. You can have a general endangerment law based on driving and any erratic and dangerous driving can be pulled over and ticketed.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Depends. If talking probability you're likely OK with that statement. If talking proof, then no since there's no measurement. You'd have to take measurements to gather proof and that may cost a bit more than a dime.

Really what it does say is that we shouldn't have all these specialized laws like drunk driving and blah. You can have a general endangerment law based on driving and any erratic and dangerous driving can be pulled over and ticketed.

Already on the books....It's called "reckless driving"
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Already on the books....It's called "reckless driving"

exactly, which is why we don't need these additional intoxication laws to begin with.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

exactly, which is why we don't need these additional intoxication laws to begin with.

Oh my...I think we agree on that....I'm not feeling well, must take temperature....
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

I can appreciate this and I don't disagree with much here - motive is always a concern when it comes to "interpreting" scientific "evidence" that lacks quantitative and qualitative certainties.

Being almost 60, and having lived through a time when smoking pot was initially widespread and "normal", I can say anecdotally that marijuana does indeed impair some people's physical and mental abilities while under the influence. That's all we're taking about here. There isn't a move to make alcohol illegal and I don't think this study is looking to make legalization of marijuana more difficult - it's simply pointing out that it can influence physical capacity and mental acuity and people who participate should avoid driving cars while under the influence of either or both.

The problem is that with the testing - it can remain in your system for days, weeks, and months after you last smoked -days, weeks, or months after you were last high. I do not think anyone is seriously saying that when you are actually high that it is ok to drive. The technology to test for active use will need to catch up with the impending laws
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

The problem is that with the testing - it can remain in your system for days, weeks, and months after you last smoked -days, weeks, or months after you were last high. I do not think anyone is seriously saying that when you are actually high that it is ok to drive. The technology to test for active use will need to catch up with the impending laws

That makes perfect sense to me. The problem then, as with most things, is government intervention prior to government having a workable plan. If, as you say, the testing can't match potential for impairment, then government shouldn't be including drug impairment in the "driving under the influence" category of charges. Leaving it to roadside "sobriety" type testing is too subjective.
 
Re: Study: Fatal Car Crashes Involving Marijuana Have Tripled

Actually, marijuana stays in your system for up to 30 days, so this story is ridiculous.

NEWS FLASH FROM CBS - A marijuana user has been arrested for DUI, due to a joint he smoked last month. LOL.

yep thats what makes the OP and the later provided PDF complete junk
 
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