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RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman[W:90]

Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
And what are those faults?
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And that makes what difference to you? You are the one defending the behavior and making a saint out of a junkie and attempting to demonize anyone that calls him what he is at his core. A drug addict that had no feelings or caring for his own children. So much so he couldn't stay straight long enough for them to grow up.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
And what are those faults?
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When I go to a drive through and can't decide on one of two entres I buy them both. Then I buy a second soda so the teller won't judge me.

*shew* glad I could get that off my chest.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

CRUE CAB said:
And that makes what difference to you?
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I'm just saying, if you're so certain that you're foibles are acceptable, especially compared to Hoffman's, let's have them. Unless you'd rather you kept those to yourself?

You are the one defending the behavior and making a saint out of a junkie
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Wrong. Re-read the OP.

and attempting to demonize anyone that calls him what he is at his core.
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Wrong again. But I am disappointed in anybody who feels the right to disregard him as nothing more than trash because he didn't live up their standard of perfection.

A drug addict that had no feelings or caring for his own children.
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Telepathy is unproven by science.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

jmotivator said:
When I go to a drive through and can't decide on one of two entres I buy them both. Then I buy a second soda so the teller won't judge me.

*shew* glad I could get that off my chest.
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Thanks for proving my point.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

CRUE CAB said:
And that makes what difference to you? You are the one defending the behavior and making a saint out of a junkie and attempting to demonize anyone that calls him what he is at his core. A drug addict that had no feelings or caring for his own children. So much so he couldn't stay straight long enough for them to grow up.
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That is the thing that always gets me. Having been a social worker for drug addicts for years I know full well how hard addiction is for people... but in the end the thing all junkies need is some humility. All of them deep down have this superman complex that they will be the one that can handle it. When they get sober, the strength they feel from the recovery eats away at them... they are sure that THIS time they can handle it, and so on.

But when they have kids the pure selfishness of addiction rears its ugly head. I fully understand Hoffman's battles with addiction. I have seen it often. That doesn't excuse the fact that this guy regularly and repeatedly chose getting high over his own kids. His kids will grow up without a dad because dad chose a needle over them.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

jmotivator said:
You had a point?
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You're more than happy to tear down another human being for their weaknesses, but would die before sharing your own darkest faults on a public forum. That humility you talked about in your last post? You could use a little of that.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
I wasn't calling Erod a drug addict, I was just saying what's the point of going on how he advertises himself? Almost nobody advertises their faults, just as Hoffman didn't advertise he was a drug addict.
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It was fairly well known that Hoffman was a drug addict, I don't think he felt the need to advertise. But drug addicts have a near limitless ability to self delude. Most of them would never be a drug addict if they didn't have that skill. You can show the Hoffman's of the world the horrible, time-tested end result of heroin use, which are no secret to anyone at this point, and the Hoffman's of the world will still shoot it in their veins because they believe they aren't weak like all those other people.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
You're more than happy to tear down another human being for their weaknesses, but would die before sharing your own darkest faults on a public forum. That humility you talked about in your last post? You could use a little of that.
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That is my darkest secret. I am sorry that it isn't as stupid or dark as you would like.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Mr. Hoffman was a wrestler in high school which I can relate to since I've been involved with the sport all my life.
I had an acting gig in HS and was really nervous but ended up doing well.
It helped prepare me for being a teacher, though I was nervous to start every new year, trying to make a good impression.

I'm not defending his use of heroin by any means, though prescription drugs are certainly a gateway here.
I think the greater problem here is the prescription drugs, and how they're felt to "help" the actor focus and get through the perceived pressure .
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

jmotivator said:
It was fairly well known that Hoffman was a drug addict, I don't think he felt the need to advertise.
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I wasn't commenting on how well known his addiction was, but that he didn't advertise it. And nobody should be expected to, either, so it's stupid to just accept how you or Erod market yourselves to the public. And to then have to listen to you judge others so completely is eye roll worthy at best.
But drug addicts have a near limitless ability to self delude.
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I almost entirely agree with this, actually.
Most of them would never be a drug addict if they didn't have that skill. You can show the Hoffman's of the world the horrible, time-tested end result of heroin use, which are no secret to anyone at this point, and the Hoffman's of the world will still shoot it in their veins because they believe they aren't weak like all those other people.
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I don't buy that. I've known drug addicts as well and nearly all of them wished they could quit. I can't actually recall a single one who deluded himself on his supposed strength. They were all well aware of their weakness and wished they could stop.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

NIMBY said:
Mr. Hoffman was a wrestler in high school which I can relate to since I've been involved with the sport all my life.
I had an acting gig in HS and was really nervous but ended up doing well.
It helped prepare me for being a teacher, though I was nervous to start every new year, trying to make a good impression.

I'm not defending his use of heroin by any means, though prescription drugs are certainly a gateway here.
I think the greater problem here is the prescription drugs, and how they're felt to "help" the actor focus and get through the perceived pressure .
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(bold mine)

Nobody is defending his heroin use. This shouldn't have to be said.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
(bold mine)

Nobody is defending his heroin use. This shouldn't have to be said.
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It would appear that the heroin use extrapolated from the prescription drugs, which were legal.
Again, as a teenager of the 60's/70's, I choose to "understand" his use, but not defend it.

It's one of the few things I can say to sooth my former parents who have lost a child the same way.
As I mentioned yesterday, this will be a teaching/learning moment for me, in his memory .
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Moderator's Warning:
Okey doke folks. Moderation has occurred.

- With the recognition that the passing of political leaders (and other figures) can be a tumultuous time stirring up a variety of feelings, from sorrow to elation, the Mod Team has strove to find a solution that will allow all facets of discussion concerning a persons death be done in a civil matter. New threads with a thread tag in the *Breaking News* section, the “R.I.P.” tag should be treated with the same general respect and etiquette one would show at a funeral. It is a thread for members to express their grief or condolences and to speak about the dead or the family of the dead in a respectful way, free of mud slinging. The same story that is used in a R.I.P thread may be used to create a standard thread about the matter as well (and vise versa). Conversation in this thread will run per the normal rules of Debate Politics. Personal attacks about individuals speaking ill of the dead, as per the standard rules, will not be allowed. As long as the discussion remains within the rules and on topic it is fair game.
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So, if you want to speak ill of the dead, find the other threads on this topic and have at it. This is an RIP thread and not the place for it.
 
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Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Addictions are life time struggle, always one use away from back to active addiction.
Would one be angry at a heart diseased patient? It is a disease model, the behavior isn't the disease, its symptomatic of the changes in brain chemistry from opiates ( and to an extent all drugs).

The neuro receptors have to be understood:

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters.
These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids.
Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids.
There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors
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THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
One accomplished nothing with his life, the other entertained millions and brought extraordinary talent to his craft. Equating the two is beyond absurd.

I'm not going to go on some asshat cry-fest about how my life will never be the same now that he's gone in spite of never having even met him, but I will give respect where it's due. Hoffman may have been highly imperfect, but his career accomplishments have earned him more than to be cast aside like so much trash just because people don't approve of the manner in which he died.
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Actually, there's a good chance that homeless bum was a very successful person and/or father or mother. Or a soldier that fought for our country. They just ended up there instead of dead, so far.

And I dont value them any less than an actor.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Moot said:
I understand Hoffmans' drug addiction began with drugs prescribed for pain by a doctor. A lot of people start their drug addiction that way.
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Did he prescribe heroin?
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Lursa said:
Actually, there's a good chance that homeless bum was a very successful person and/or father or mother. Or a soldier that fought for our country. They just ended up there instead of dead, so far.

And I dont value them any less than an actor.
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The context (and implication) of Wiseone's post was that the hypothetical homeless bum had not, in fact, done anything with his life.
 
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Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
(bold mine)

Nobody is defending his heroin use. This shouldn't have to be said.
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Odd, I found several people in this thread were at least making excuses for it....that is defending it IMO.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
The context (and implication) of Wiseone's post was that the hypothetical homeless bum had not, in fact, done anything with his life.
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I disagree....because so many of them came from the backgrounds I described. But perhaps he didnt think of that either.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Lursa said:
I disagree....because so many of them came from the backgrounds I described. But perhaps he didnt think of that either.
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It wasn't the context of the post he had made, otherwise bringing up a homeless bum as an example would have been nonsensical.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Lursa said:
Odd, I found several people in this thread were at least making excuses for it....that is defending it IMO.
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Explaining drug addiction and defending it are universes apart.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

annata said:
Addictions are life time struggle, always one use away from back to active addiction.
Would one be angry at a heart diseased patient? It is a disease model, the behavior isn't the disease, its symptomatic of the changes in brain chemistry from opiates ( and to an extent all drugs).
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Yes but he moved to heroin. For a better high?

That's just speculation on my part because I have zero idea why anyone, esp. of his age, would try heroin. We were taught from a very young age how dangerous and addictive heroin is.

What a waste.
 
Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

Cardinal said:
Explaining drug addiction and defending it are universes apart.
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No, they were 'making excuses' for it. That's not 'clinical' in nature.
 
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