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Thread: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman[W:90]

  1. #121
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    he was a recovering addict. I didn't se any support groups, he didn't go to Narcotics Anonymous (NA), he let his years of clean time catch up to himself without a "one day at a time" thinking process.

    Addiction is a permanent condition; one can stay clean with daily desires to do so, along with at least periodic support groups, personal inventory - basic stuff of rehabilitation. If one doesn't do this, one is more likely to lapse.

    Seems like he didn't really try to "work the program" - not going to judge him though, addiction is insidious, and manifests itself different ways for different people. Once you have the disease it has to be acknowledged can't just say "well i'm clean now"

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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    he was a recovering addict. I didn't se any support groups, he didn't go to Narcotics Anonymous (NA), he let is years of clean time catch up to him.

    Addiction is a permanent condition; one can stay clean with daily desires to do so, along with at least periodic support groups, personal inventory - basic stuff of rehabilitation. If one doesn't do this, one is more likely to lapse.
    Seems like he didn't really try to "work the program" - not going to judge him though, addiction is insidious, and manifests itself different ways for different people. Once you have the disease it has to be acknowledged can't just say "well i'm clean now"
    My understanding is that Narcotics Anonymous is anonymous, so how would you know if he went or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #123
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    My understanding is that Narcotics Anonymous is anonymous, so how would you know if he went or not?
    I don't, all I know is what little reports I've seen. He was at the Sundance Film festival last year and said to some reporter "I am a heroin addict"- which is unusual in context - but you are correct.
    It's just speculation on my part. I just haven't seen any reports he worked to maintain recovery.

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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    I don't, all I know is what little reports I've seen. He was at the Sundance Film festival last year and said to some reporter "I am a heroin addict"- which is unusual in context - but you are correct.
    It's just speculation on my part. I just haven't seen any reports he worked to maintain recovery.
    I don't know. Alcoholics are always alcoholics even if they quit drinking, right?

  5. #125
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    He WAS a careless drug addict. In fact, the description " careless drug addict " is redundant.
    There are more functional addicts in the world than dysfunctional ones. The idea that you have to be down and out to be an addict is misinformed. There are addicts at all levels of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    HEROIN USE is a recipe for disaster and no, he doesn't get a pass becauss he shouldering the stress of. forrtune and fame.
    I agree that heroin is extremely dangerous. But his addiction did not start with fortune and fame. He was formerly addicted in college, and probably had addictive tendencies even before he tried drugs. Fame and fortune don't necessarily bring you closer to resolving your inner wounds. Sometimes it makes it worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    If there was ever a prime example for the continued prosecution of drug dealers and drug dealers, this is it.
    I don't see what the legalities have to do with this dead man. Clearly the law is not stopping even high profile people from accidentally killing themselves with drugs. How many people die of overdoses from drugs they were legally allowed to have? More than all the illegal ones combined. Do some market research and you will see that it's the war on drugs which is irrelevant here. Put aside the dogma and look at the hard facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Drug addicts are selfish individuals. You mentioned his kids. He was kicked out of his home he shared with them because he was doing heroin.
    Well, he ended up in rehab before, so how selfish could he be? It takes courage to really face yourself and get clean. If he relapsed then it means his work wasn't finished, not that he is necessarily a selfish bastard. Most addicts relapse because there are mental health issues tied to the unhealthy dependence. If they get clean without debunking the core issues, then they are far more likely to end up back on drugs. It's why forced rehab is so unsuccessful. They have to want it. If PSH turned to heroin to cope with life's crap, then you can bet his mental health problems were somehow triggered again. Typical pattern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    He knew how to get help, he knew there were people and doctors and proffesionals that could help, he could AFFORD that help but he chose the dope.
    We don't really know what he was thinking so this is speculative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I agree, drug addicts need help, but justifuing their self destructive behavior by claiming we should change our minds on the benefits of sobriety is counter productive.
    No one is arguing that sobriety is less desirable. Addicts also go through sober phases in an attempt to readjust reality, but it's the mental health issues and life circumstances which can easily draw them back in. Life can really suck and drugs are an easy go to because they feel blissful and euphoric.

    What I'm trying to change your mind about is not the legalities, but that we should reserve judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Addicts don't need more excuses and justifications.
    No one is saying otherwise. In fact, excuses and justifications merely enable them further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    They don't need to hear some nonsense like " its societies fault, and the war on drugs fault, not yours ", they need to hear the truth.
    Look... it's not about giving them some other way to shift the blame and avoid personal responsibility. It's asking people to understand the sources of addictions, addiction as MEDICAL DISEASE, and how being more compassionate yet NOT enabling would really go a long way to ending the isolation of addicts who want to get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    That if they continue they are going to DIE.
    Not always, but in a lot of cases yes. There 60-80 year old men still doing heroin from their days in Vietnam where they originally got into it. And on the flipside, there are first time users who die because the dose is wrong.

    We need to end the arbitrary and pointless arguments about "what drugs are" and look at the scientific info, the historical info, and the wealth of research that shows what comprehensive harm reduction strategies can really do to turn things around.

    I mean c'mon... if you go into any U.S. hospital with track marks or an infected injection site, you can be arrested then and there. Paraphernalia like needles? Same thing. Just how are tormented addicts supposed to come forward when the system is so harshly deterring them into hiding all evidence?

    If you have to hide from help, then you go into hiding, and THAT'S when you die.

  6. #126
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I don't know. Alcoholics are always alcoholics even if they quit drinking, right?
    yes. the term is "recovering alcoholic", or in crude terms "dry drunk".
    same thing though, once susceptible, you stay vulnerable. Everyone is different, and generally the longer 'clean time' the better, but there are no hard and fast rules/guarantees.

    So you got to know yourself, and be aware that you are an addict/alcoholic, if not a practicing one

  7. #127
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    yes. the term is "recovering alcoholic", or in crude terms "dry drunk".
    same thing though, once susceptible, you stay vulnerable. Everyone is different, and generally the longer 'clean time' the better, but there are no hard and fast rules/guarantees.

    So you got to know yourself, and be aware that you are an addict/alcoholic, if not a practicing one
    I could be wrong, but I've heard the term "dry drunk" to refer to an alcoholic who no longer drinks but hasn't gone through recovery. The idea is that while they may abstain (through sheer force of willpower) they still have the same dysfunctional thought patterns of the addicted personality, so their risk of falling off the wagon are thought to be greater.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #128
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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman[W:90]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I am said that he his dead, for his fans but more importantly for his family/loved ones. They will have to miss someone they truly loved.

    But as for him? I am sorry that he is dead but the only one anyone can blame for this is PSH himself, drugs kill, everybody knows that. Continued use of drugs usually kills people, if not in the short term then it will kill them in the long term.

    Mr. Hoffman killed himself with his irresponsible behavior and it is his loved ones who are paying the price for his drugs taking. They are the ones who have to miss their loved one. I might sound like a jerk, but I used to be addicted to gambling and know that it is hard to stop doing something you mentally and physically are hooked on, but mollycoddling junkies is not going to help them. The harsh and painful truth is the only thing that can help someone.

    Philip Seymour Hoffman selfishly choose his addiction over his children and even though it is sad for everybody around him that he is dead, this might be a wake up call to other celebrity and non-celebrity drug addicts that it can and will happen to all those who choose to feed their habit, this is the ultimate price you will pay.
    Should have been "I am sad that he is dead". Just call it my "Doh" moment (as in Homer Simpson).
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I could be wrong, but I've heard the term "dry drunk" to refer to an alcoholic who no longer drinks but hasn't gone through recovery. The idea is that while they may abstain (through sheer force of willpower) they still have the same dysfunctional thought patterns of the addicted personality, so their risk of falling off the wagon are thought to be greater.
    So very true.

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