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Thread: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

  1. #191
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    In the west, whisky is for drinking. Water is for fighting over.
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    And oil is for pumping .
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    You might want to ask Roguenuke if she's floating around. She's familiar with desalination units since most Navy ships have desalination units aboard to produce fresh water for the ships crew. An aircraft carrier is a small city.

    Most advancement in technology have always come from the military industrial complex. If there's a new technology in the pipeline it will becoming from DARPA.

    Just doing a light search.

    2013/06/25 Improved Water Purification Technology Reduces SWaP Logistics Burden

    PORTABLE SOLAR POWERED WATER PURIFICATION AND DESALINATION SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT | SBIR.gov

    DARPA by Marc Andelman | Desalination.com

    Saudi Desalination Investing
    I've always figured that we don't use desalination as much on land because we seem to be much less willing to combine operations on land than we do on Navy vessels, besides just the cost compared to other land based water gathering methods. For instance, as a mechanic/engineer onboard the ship, I helped make the steam, electricity and water for the ship all in basically the same space or working with people in the space next to ours to do this. We used all of these things together to make the others. For civilians to do this and be as efficient as possible, they would basically have to integrate the desalination plants into close operation with an electric power plant near a large body of water, preferably the ocean. Plus there is the issue of more pollution being in the water closer to land than at sea. That means ensuring better monitoring of water than we do (we don't generally have to worry about foreign chemicals in our water, just microbes, bacteria, and maybe some algae, by the time we make the water, the chemicals have already diluted to pretty much undetectable levels). And then there is the matter of what to do with the "brine" (concentrated salt water left over with other sealife/crud within it that we simply pump back out to sea) that is left. We simply pump it back out to sea as we pass, whereas piping would be needed to this on land but it might need to be processed to meet pollution standards.

    It's certainly possible to do that right now, I just think most people feel it isn't worth it when there are other sources available that are cheaper to do. One day we might need it though, considering how much water we use, and hopefully we will be prepared for it without major hassles, but I doubt it.
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I've always figured that we don't use desalination as much on land because we seem to be much less willing to combine operations on land than we do on Navy vessels, besides just the cost compared to other land based water gathering methods. For instance, as a mechanic/engineer onboard the ship, I helped make the steam, electricity and water for the ship all in basically the same space or working with people in the space next to ours to do this. We used all of these things together to make the others. For civilians to do this and be as efficient as possible, they would basically have to integrate the desalination plants into close operation with an electric power plant near a large body of water, preferably the ocean. Plus there is the issue of more pollution being in the water closer to land than at sea. That means ensuring better monitoring of water than we do (we don't generally have to worry about foreign chemicals in our water, just microbes, bacteria, and maybe some algae, by the time we make the water, the chemicals have already diluted to pretty much undetectable levels). And then there is the matter of what to do with the "brine" (concentrated salt water left over with other sealife/crud within it that we simply pump back out to sea) that is left. We simply pump it back out to sea as we pass, whereas piping would be needed to this on land but it might need to be processed to meet pollution standards.

    It's certainly possible to do that right now, I just think most people feel it isn't worth it when there are other sources available that are cheaper to do. One day we might need it though, considering how much water we use, and hopefully we will be prepared for it without major hassles, but I doubt it.
    That's the way I have been looking at water desalination on land. You have to have electricity. Except for hydro-electrict the eviormentalist don't like nuclear, gas, JP, or coal electrical generating plants. Solar and wind electrical generation take up vast areas of land and contribute to eye pollution. They're ugly.

    Then the liberals in San Fransisco and even the L.A. area want to dismantle all of the dams and restore all the rivers to their natural condition not knowing why the dams were constructed in the first place. To control the river flow preventing flooding down stream and providing a reservoir for water for drinking, manufacturing and agriculture. Hydo-elecricity was just a byproduct. I wonder if the left has noticed that most of the rivers in Southern California are concrete ? There's a reason for that.

  5. #195
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I believe that's already being done. At least LV has been encouraging it for some time now. So-called Desert Landscaping is all the rage there. We've replaced toilets before, now replace them with waterless. That alone should do the trick with no need for desalinization which is just another one of those moves that solves a temporary problem only to create greater problems down the line.
    The people of the world have been learning how to recycle more and more things as well as develop new technologies to replace that which is no longer practical or effective. We will almost certainly continue to do so. When we really are running out of fossil fuels, as has bee predicted for so long but is not yet a problem, I have every confidence in human ingenuity that they will have developed viable and practical replacement for them. When there is insufficient water, the people either pack up and move or figure out another way to get water. And we all learn to adapt to whatever conditions exist.

    In our area, the lawn has mostly disappeared in favor of drought resistant xeriscaping which is quite lovely. Most of us do use evaporative coolers but these are super efficient and use very little water--the increase in our water bill during the hot summer months, even when we run the cooler around the clock, is negligible--certainly less than a dollar or two a month. In fact our city saved so much water in the last couple of years, that the city needs to raise its water rates to offset the revenue shortfall. And yeah, it bites when we are punished for being responsible.

    So if we are in for a hundred year drought, this will be devastating for many areas, especially those desert areas that have depended so heavily on agriculture and other water intensive industries. But humankind is pretty resilient and capable of dealing with whatever the Earth throws at it. And we will get through this drought too.
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Well thank God we are saving a Delta Smelt....

    Consumers around the country may soon be facing steeper prices for fruits, vegetables and nuts thanks to an obscure three-inch-long fish, called the Delta smelt, and the Endangered Species Act (ESA).

    In California’s storied Central Valley, for decades one of the world’s most productive agricultural regions, an estimated 250,000 acres of prime farm land are lying fallow or dying. The parched area bears all the signs of a prolonged drought, but the acute water shortage confronting farmers and growers is largely manmade, the result of the Interior Department’s rigorous enforcement of the ESA.

    - See more at: Tiny fish threatens to turn California‚
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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And then there is the matter of what to do with the "brine" (concentrated salt water left over with other sealife/crud within it that we simply pump back out to sea) that is left. We simply pump it back out to sea as we pass, whereas piping would be needed to this on land but it might need to be processed to meet pollution standards.
    Is it possible/feasible to train-transport this brine to the east to be used on roads such as right now with our winter?
    I'm assuming the brine is contaminated and may cause harm to the ecosystems connected to the roads .
    Last edited by NIMBY; 02-03-14 at 05:49 PM.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well thank God we are saving a Delta Smelt....
    Much as the environmentalists put a number of farmers and ranchers downstream into or near bankruptcy to save a tiny silvery minnow that is found in the middle Rio Grande that has survived many droughts before people started trying to run the world better than Mother Nature did.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Is it possible/feasible to train-transport this brine to the east to be used on roads such as right now with our winter?
    I'm assuming the brine is contaminated and may cause harm to the ecosystems connected to the roads .
    Depends on what is in it. It is still water, just very salty water with pretty much anything else found in ocean water, including even some seacreatures. Close to shore, it is also going to have some chemicals and other pollutants, dependent on where exactly the plant would be located. It could be transported anywhere water can, but it might not be worth it to do it, since I really don't know the cost of such a venture.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Lake Mead is shrinking -- and with it Las Vegas' water supply

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Depends on what is in it. It is still water, just very salty water with pretty much anything else found in ocean water, including even some seacreatures. Close to shore, it is also going to have some chemicals and other pollutants, dependent on where exactly the plant would be located. It could be transported anywhere water can, but it might not be worth it to do it, since I really don't know the cost of such a venture.
    I would suggest they find a way to purify it for human consumption, let it dry up, and let all that great sea salt become an important new American industry.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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