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Thread: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    What I would like to see is a bill drawn along Gary Johnson's idea of a few years ago. Give all illegals 3 years to register with the federal government. When they do give them a red alien registration card. From that point forward all, and I repeat all immigration laws must be enforced with vigor. This would make all those who registered legal residents. But there would be no way for a red card legal alien residence to obtain citizenship. That is unless they are willing to do so the legal way. By that I mean to return to their home country and legally enter the U.S. All illegals now residing in the U.S. do have a path to citizenship, they can exit and re-enter legally.

    All legal alien residents should have the opportunity to become a citizen a very long time before any illegal. Those here legally did it the right way, those here illegally broke our laws. Hence they should not be rewarded with a path to citizenship, reward for breaking U.S. law by allowing them to live here legally is enough. To give them a path to citizenship would be like not only pardoning a bank robber for his crime, but also giving the pardoned bank robber a check from the government for a hundred thousand dollars.

    I suppose the bottom line for me is I could support almost any immigration reform bill as long as it guarantees strict enforcement of our immigration laws once passed and there is no path to citizenship. Any bill has to have those two provisions or I will fight it. My wife is now a naturalized citizen, she came here legally, paid the fees, went through the background checks, obtained a visa, went through all the proper paper work and waiting period, then studied hard and became a naturalized citizen. She did it the right way, if any of these illegals want to become citizens, they too need to do it the right way. It is that simple for me.
    So, would you agree that the immigration process was unnecessarily convoluted and lengthy? Keeping in mind that your wife was basically on the fast track because she was married to you.

    I ask because I think the difficulty of our legal immigration process is the prime reason that people come in illegally. There just isn't enough legal carrot to balance out any fear of stick that might come with illegal immigration.

    I don't buy the bank robber comparison.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I suspect neither of you are even remotely familiar with our immigration process. For an awful lot of people, there literally isn't a path to citizenship. And for those who it is? Lengthy (as in upwards of a decade), expensive, bureaucratic hell.
    No, you don't know the process. You cherry pick the **** you want to believe. And you want to give million of potential Democrat voters citizenship and the vote. The vote being your primary motive.
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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    That's the real crux of this all. The "Conservatives" don't care that the illegals are hispanic, polish, latino, korean, russian, canadian or whatever. What we care about is "Here are our laws, you have broken our laws, why the @!#$@#$!# should we give you the time of day?" The opposing side to that sees easy "voters for life", and the easy "racist hate you!" card to play to boot.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I suspect neither of you are even remotely familiar with our immigration process. For an awful lot of people, there literally isn't a path to citizenship. And for those who it is? Lengthy (as in upwards of a decade), expensive, bureaucratic hell.
    I am quite familiar with the process. Is it cumbersome? YES. Is it overall problematic? YES. Until Congress gets off its collective duffs and emends the situation, which could solve the problem, the laws should be followed.
    Any action that includes any configuration of amnesty is emotional pandering and only bandages the symptom while leaving the disease to grow stronger. That disease is not only illegal infiltration into this country; it also is the failure of Congress to improve efficiency of the system.

    Good eve, Deuce

    Thom Paine

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So, would you agree that the immigration process was unnecessarily convoluted and lengthy? Keeping in mind that your wife was basically on the fast track because she was married to you.

    [B]I ask because I think the difficulty of our legal immigration process is the prime reason that people come in illegally. There just isn't enough legal carrot to balance out any fear of stick that might come with illegal immigration.[/B]

    ......
    We certainly agree here !


    Thom Paine

    Edit: and maybe another point against 'amnesty' .... carrot and big stick....

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Am fine with listening to any plan. There certainly is a problem that needs addressed.

    But any proposal needs to start with containing/closing the current bleed across the borders...


    “Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No, you don't know the process. You cherry pick the **** you want to believe. And you want to give million of potential Democrat voters citizenship and the vote. The vote being your primary motive.
    And you want to murder brown people and get away with it, and that's easier if they're an illegal immigrant instead of a legal one.

    Since assigning motives to other people is what we're doing here, apparently. Fun game, we should play it more often.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think you're forgetting the other half of the equation: legal immigration.

    If someone's goal is to come to the United States and make a better life for themselves, they have two options: legal or illegal. People will gravitate towards the easier or more attractive option. Right now, the legal method is a nightmare. It is probably the most convoluted, lengthy, expensive bureaucratic nonsense in our entire government, and that's saying a lot. And for a lot of people, it's not even actually an option. Many people simply don't have any path to become a citizen at all. Nope, sorry, you don't meet our criteria so you just can't come. Of course that person is going to jump the proverbial fence.
    Legal immigration should not be increased just because of 12-20 million people who refuse to obey our immigration laws. We allow a little over half a million people each year to be citizens.That number should not be increased and during times of unemployment that number should be decreased.


    Naturalization: Hundreds of thousands of U.S. residents achieve citizenship each year - The Monitor: Local News
    Saucedo is one of the more than 600,000 people who become naturalized U.S. citizens each year.

    You guys seem to focus on making illegal immigration more unattractive,
    Our elected officials simply enforcing our immigration laws would make it more unattractive.

    but the equation will never balance in favor of legal immigration unless we make drastic changes to that process. Changes, I suspect, people like you will never accept.
    I am pretty sure if they couldn't get jobs, enroll their kids into school, open a bank account and many other things then I am pretty sure legal immigration would look more favorable.

    I mean, listen to yourself. Anti-American. That's what you call people who want our borders to be more open.
    Why would you need to open the borders when you can simply allow large batches of people into the country ever 20 some odd years just because traitors in our office refuse to enforce our immigration laws? It makes making the opening the border a waste of time.

    Question: You ever been to the statue of liberty?.
    The statue of liberty is a gift from France. It does not dictate our immigration policies and when it was create people came here legally and were practically on their own, there was no foodstamps,welfare,section 8 housing and all sorts of other stuff.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So, would you agree that the immigration process was unnecessarily convoluted and lengthy? Keeping in mind that your wife was basically on the fast track because she was married to you.

    I ask because I think the difficulty of our legal immigration process is the prime reason that people come in illegally. There just isn't enough legal carrot to balance out any fear of stick that might come with illegal immigration.

    I don't buy the bank robber comparison.
    I didn't think you would. But by providing a path to citizenship for illegals you are slapping every legal immigrant who came to this country legally and became a naturalized citizen in the face. You are telling them they were fools for obeying the laws and doing things the right way. There is nothing wrong with Gary Johnson's plan. It at least makes it legal for all those here in this country now illegally to be here legally. How much more do you want to reward law breakers?

    We are either a country of laws or we are not. As it is we enforce the laws we want to and disregard or ignore the ones we don't. If it is that important to grant citizenship upon people who broke our immigration laws, then I say repeal all immigration laws on the books, as they do not mean anything to begin with. At least once they are repealed, perhaps we could as a nation go back to being a nation of laws if we were really a nation of laws to begin with.

    Yes it was a hassle to bring the wife here. But we went through the hassle and she arrived here legally. Is it too much to ask of others that they do the same? Apparently so. By granting those illegals a red card you are in reality providing amnesty to them. They pay no fine, serve no jail term, are not deported. They become registered legal aliens able to work legally and receive all the rights of any other legal resident in this country. They received all of this for breaking our immigration laws, that should be reward enough. After all, if becoming a U.S. citizen, they do have a path to do that. Return to their home country and come here legally.
    Last edited by Perotista; 01-31-14 at 12:37 AM.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: House leaders sell immigration blueprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie Loucks View Post
    Kinda like how allowing more people to have guns encourages more reckless gun use, right?
    We have at least 310 million firearms in the hands of citizens in this country. What is the percentage of people using guns recklessly?

    Gun control offers no cure-all in America - NBC Politics

    According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2009 there were an estimated 310 million firearms in the United States

    Just playing with you. However, I'm honestly surprised that you're only "slightly conservative" after reading that post.
    Illegal immigration is a not a conservative vs liberal issue.There are people on both sides of the isle who oppose illegal immigration and people on both sides of the isle who support it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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