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Thread: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

  1. #341
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    It should be noted that the US extradited over 900 people last year.

    More than 900 fugitives were extradited to the U.S. last year. Here's where they were hiding | Vocativ

    Including 19 from the British Isles and 65 from Europe



    Britons must be tried in Britain, extradition campaigners say - Telegraph
    Last edited by Chatter; 02-06-14 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    If that's a problem then the US doesn't have to extradite with ECHR members, I have no problem with that. Just don't enter extradition agreements and then not adhere to them. In terms of the UK, I believe our treaty should be changed with the US, if you believe the treaty between the US and Italy should be changed or with ECHR members then so be it, but don't just moan about it, if you are not happy campaign to change the current arrangement, and don't just sit and whine.
    Again, you are missing the point. The treaty is fine, the treaty already makes exceptions for double jeopardy. As per the treaty, we can refuse extradition for cases involving double jeopardy.

    The thing here is that you want to sit and tell America to universally accept extradition without exception while claiming that you have proper exception. It's a hypocritical argument, and invalid as it is illogical and irrational. Exceptions are written into the treaties. Death penalty is one exception, double jeopardy is another.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Again, you are missing the point. The treaty is fine, the treaty already makes exceptions for double jeopardy. As per the treaty, we can refuse extradition for cases involving double jeopardy.

    The thing here is that you want to sit and tell America to universally accept extradition without exception while claiming that you have proper exception. It's a hypocritical argument, and invalid as it is illogical and irrational. Exceptions are written into the treaties. Death penalty is one exception, double jeopardy is another.
    No it doesn't

    Quote Originally Posted by The Telegraph

    Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from “double jeopardy” – being tried twice for the same charge.

    Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. “This is not applicable in this situation,” said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.

    For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce “a brief statement of the facts of the case,” as well as the text of the laws governing the crime committed, the punishment it would receive, and its statute of limitations.

    Her conviction would “easily satisfy the conditions of the treaty,” said Prof Ku. “So it would be hard for the US to explain why she should not be handed over”.

    What next for Amanda Knox? - Telegraph

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Amanda Knox found guilty of making NoC_T's penis turn cartwheels. World exclusive!

  5. #345
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    What utter rubbish.

    I think you will find that other countries extradite to the US quite frequently based only on a basic outline of the case and often not even based on Prima Facie evidence. Then again I fully support Britain tightening some of it's extradition treaties and particularly the 2003 US/UK Treaty. Perhaps if the US does refuse a basic criminal extradition case, it may lead to a catalyst for change in relation to extradition between the US/UK, Italy/US and even EU Countries and the US and that would be something I would fully support.

    In terms of the UK 2003 Extradition Treaty with the US, I would welcome the following -

    1.) Someone should not be extradited to another country for actions that are not criminal in the UK.

    2.) A basic case (Prima Facie) should be made to a British court before someone can be sent abroad to face trial in another country.

    3.) If a significant part of the conduct that led to the alleged crime took place in the UK, then a British court should be able to decide if it is in the interests of justice to extradite.

    Such changes to the extradition law may have prevented extradition to the US from Britain of individuals in recent years such as Giles Darby, David Bermingham, Gary Mulgrew, Christopher Tappin, Babar Ahmad, Talha Ahsan, David Carruthers, Ian Norris, Jeremy Crook and Peter Dicks. Whilst Gary McKinnon and Richard O'Dwyer extraditions to the US have thankfully been refused by Britain, and US extradition requests in relation to the extradition of Paul and Sandra Dunham and Dave Mcintyre are still pending. As for Australian national Julian Assange he remains hold up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London with a 24 hour police guard payed for by the British taxpayer. Most of thes cases above being cases largely involving actions committed outside of the US, usually on British soil by British nationals or involved actions that aren't deemed criminal in the UK.

    In terms of murder cases that have taken place in the US, there is usually no problem with extradition. Although if the US wants to start politicising murder cases, I am sure the Italian and other countries will be more than happy to reciprocate. It also should be noted that the US extradites more people than any other country in the world and if any one benefits from the current arrangements it's the US rather than countries such as Italy or the UK.

    Extradition Watch | Liberty - protecting civil liberties, promoting human rights

    Amanda Knox Extradition Should Be Granted | New Republic
    Good post. But I disagree with number 2. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

    Some countries allow men to beat the crap out of their wives. Should they refuse extradition of a US citizen, convicted in the US for such a crime, because it is acceptable in THEIR country?

    That is a double edged sword. When one is in a foreign country, they should abide by that country's laws or leave it.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    No it doesn't
    Prohibited by our Constitution, just like your death penalty extradition. Didn't you try to use that as an excuse? It's funny how these excuses work for your side, but you refuse to allow our side to them.

    Regardless, the US would need to demonstrate a miscarriage of justice, which would be double jeopardy. Regardless, it's not open and shut and even the legal experts are not saying it's impossible, but rather that it would be challenging and have ramifications we'd rather not face. If she's depressed and suicidal, the excuse of extradition being incompatible with human rights could be used. If one really wanted. We'll find out in probably a year and a half when this mess is cleared up.

    Regardless, double jeopardy is a miscarriage of justice and a violation of the rights of the individual.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #347
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Prohibited by our Constitution, just like your death penalty extradition. Didn't you try to use that as an excuse? It's funny how these excuses work for your side, but you refuse to allow our side to them.

    Regardless, the US would need to demonstrate a miscarriage of justice, which would be double jeopardy. Regardless, it's not open and shut and even the legal experts are not saying it's impossible, but rather that it would be challenging and have ramifications we'd rather not face. If she's depressed and suicidal, the excuse of extradition being incompatible with human rights could be used. If one really wanted. We'll find out in probably a year and a half when this mess is cleared up.

    Regardless, double jeopardy is a miscarriage of justice and a violation of the rights of the individual.
    Life is too short to deal with you. Try reading the quotes by your own legal experts in transnational law on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian Ku - US Professor of Transnational Law

    Some lawyers and supporters of Ms Knox have argued that having been acquitted in 2011, she would be protected under the US Constitution from “double jeopardy” – being tried twice for the same charge.

    Yet the US-Italy extradition treaty only protects Americans from extradition to face prosecution again in Italy for an offence that has already been dealt with by the US legal system. “This is not applicable in this situation,” said Professor Julian Ku, who teaches transnational law at Hofstra University.

    For extradition candidates like Ms Knox who have already been convicted, the treaty states that Italy must merely produce “a brief statement of the facts of the case,” as well as the text of the laws governing the crime committed, the punishment it would receive, and its statute of limitations.

    Her conviction would “easily satisfy the conditions of the treaty,” said Prof Ku. “So it would be hard for the US to explain why she should not be handed over”.

  8. #348
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    Whatever - life is too short to deal with you. Try reading the quotes by your own legal experts in transnational law on the subject.
    I read the quotes by the selected experts you presented. It's as I said. At least try a bit of intellectual honesty in your arguments, a little will go a long way.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #349
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I read the quotes by the selected experts you presented. It's as I said. At least try a bit of intellectual honesty in your arguments, a little will go a long way.
    You can read the article from 'The Telegraph' (London) yourself -

    What next for Amanda Knox? - Telegraph

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Good post. But I disagree with number 2. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

    Some countries allow men to beat the crap out of their wives. Should they refuse extradition of a US citizen, convicted in the US for such a crime, because it is acceptable in THEIR country?

    That is a double edged sword. When one is in a foreign country, they should abide by that country's laws or leave it.
    If your taking about Prima Facie evidence, that's just the basics of the case and is presented to US Courts before people are extradited from the US and should be presented vice versa.

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