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Thread: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

  1. #301
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Because of the US judicial system.



    Then dont make extradition treaties with countries. My objection to extradition to the US is based on the pathetic US justice system and the very lopsided extradition treaties European countries have with the US. Now if my country or a country has an extradition treaty with the US, then I expect them to follow the law. I might not like the law, and might campaign against it and wanting it changed, but that does not mean the current law should not be followed.

    The same goes for the US having to extradite to Europe. Chances are it wont happen simply because of the whole political process truimphing the legal process in the US on such cases, but like it or not, the US does have an extradition treaty with Italy and according to the law they should extradite her. Now that they most likely wont, just as they refused to extradite the CIA agents who committed crimes on Italian soil.. just shows yet again how arrogant and pathetic the US is towards its allies and international law in general.

    I don't know if you could ever make a non-bigoted argument on America.
    Yet many of those could tries made extradition treaties with America. But your argument floods side as soon as it changes from America to Europe. European countries don't have to follow terms of extradition because America is stupid. But America has to follow terms of extradition despite serious concerns over a lopsided judicial system. It must demonstrates how pathetic and arrogant Europe is to its non-European allies.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yet many of those could tries made extradition treaties with America. But your argument floods side as soon as it changes from America to Europe. European countries don't have to follow terms of extradition because America is stupid. But America has to follow terms of extradition despite serious concerns over a lopsided judicial system. It must demonstrates how pathetic and arrogant Europe is to its non-European allies.
    That is not what I said. Let me try this again. Countries have to follow the treaties and agreements they make with each other. But that does not mean I or others like those agreements since in many people's view they are highly lopsided towards the US.. and that is pretty much any treaty out there. When Europe is forced to open up her markets to American companies, the US is not required to do the same. Stuff like that.

    On the extradition front, the US has extradition treaties with many countries but not France (as far as I know). Now the US-UK extradition treaty is heavily lopsided despite the Tory government coming out with a supposed independent panel showing it is not.. but when you spend years fighting off the extradition of mentally handicapped and the only recourse is the court system.. then you know it is a problem. Another good example on upholding agreements.. Assange and Sweden. The European arrest warrant was never ever designed to be used in the way the Swedish prosecutor has done so, but it is legal, the UK has per the agreement followed the law and it forced Assange to fell to foreign soil. The key here is again... there is a treaty.. I dont like the fact that it is used in this way, and hell there are plenty on the UK right that dont like it, but that is how it is until the treaty is changed.

    Now to Italy. They have a deal with the US. The US has several times refused to honour that deal, hence I suspect they wont honour this one either. Now there is still a treaty in place but it is pretty much worthless is it not? And I believe that treaty was originally put in place to get mafia people out of Italy for prosecution in the US. Good to know that Italian mafia families might be able to hide in Italy again eh? All because of a girl who is a convicted killer... and yes CIA operatives.

    And that brings me to my original point. I dont like handing over people to the US because of the pathetic legal system there, but if my country has a treaty with another, then I damn well expect it to upheld that treaty despite me not liking it. If we cant uphold treaties between countries then where the hell are we heading? International treaties are the basis for our trade and movement.. throw them out of the window and you have anarchy.

    So I expect the US to meet its treaty obligations and if met, hand over Amanda to her fate in Italy like any convicted criminal. Now if the US blocks the extradition, then it will have consequences for not only US - Italian relations but US - EU relations as there has been massive push back even in the UK against those agreements we have with the US on a number of issues. I doubt that one case can do much, but it is not just one case is it now. Of my head I can say that Denmark, Spain, Italy, Germany and France at least have serious doubt about treaties with the US.

    We shall see.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    That is not what I said. Let me try this again. Countries have to follow the treaties and agreements they make with each other. But that does not mean I or others like those agreements since in many people's view they are highly lopsided towards the US.. and that is pretty much any treaty out there. When Europe is forced to open up her markets to American companies, the US is not required to do the same. Stuff like that.

    On the extradition front, the US has extradition treaties with many countries but not France (as far as I know). Now the US-UK extradition treaty is heavily lopsided despite the Tory government coming out with a supposed independent panel showing it is not.. but when you spend years fighting off the extradition of mentally handicapped and the only recourse is the court system.. then you know it is a problem. Another good example on upholding agreements.. Assange and Sweden. The European arrest warrant was never ever designed to be used in the way the Swedish prosecutor has done so, but it is legal, the UK has per the agreement followed the law and it forced Assange to fell to foreign soil. The key here is again... there is a treaty.. I dont like the fact that it is used in this way, and hell there are plenty on the UK right that dont like it, but that is how it is until the treaty is changed.

    Now to Italy. They have a deal with the US. The US has several times refused to honour that deal, hence I suspect they wont honour this one either. Now there is still a treaty in place but it is pretty much worthless is it not? And I believe that treaty was originally put in place to get mafia people out of Italy for prosecution in the US. Good to know that Italian mafia families might be able to hide in Italy again eh? All because of a girl who is a convicted killer... and yes CIA operatives.

    And that brings me to my original point. I dont like handing over people to the US because of the pathetic legal system there, but if my country has a treaty with another, then I damn well expect it to upheld that treaty despite me not liking it. If we cant uphold treaties between countries then where the hell are we heading? International treaties are the basis for our trade and movement.. throw them out of the window and you have anarchy.

    So I expect the US to meet its treaty obligations and if met, hand over Amanda to her fate in Italy like any convicted criminal. Now if the US blocks the extradition, then it will have consequences for not only US - Italian relations but US - EU relations as there has been massive push back even in the UK against those agreements we have with the US on a number of issues. I doubt that one case can do much, but it is not just one case is it now. Of my head I can say that Denmark, Spain, Italy, Germany and France at least have serious doubt about treaties with the US.

    We shall see.
    These treaties are already violated often. Some countries, such as Canada, won't extradite to the US if the accused faces the death penalty as Canada doesn't have the death penalty. They aren't alone, many will refuse extradition based on the individual laws or customs of the State.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #304
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    He was. He was acquitted and released at exactly the same time as Knox. He was only rearrested the day before yesterday as he was, apparently, making his way to the Austrian border.
    He should have left earlier.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    He should have left earlier.
    No doubt. I would have, but where to go? Had he chosen to follow Foxy Knoxy to Seattle, I'm in little doubt who would have been extradited first. Are you?
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    No doubt. I would have, but where to go? Had he chosen to follow Foxy Knoxy to Seattle, I'm in little doubt who would have been extradited first. Are you?
    Why is she "foxy knoxy"?

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Why is she "foxy knoxy"?
    It was something the media came up with and thought they were all cute and cool about.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    I've read that her teammates gave her the nickname (which sport I don't remember--soccer?).

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It was something the media came up with and thought they were all cute and cool about.
    Actually she used "Foxy Knoxy" and on her MySpace account.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    No, I can't give you a summary of the evidence. I'm sure that info must be available somewhere, but that's not really the issue. The issue is that this conviction has been handed down by the Court of Cassation, which is the highest court of last resort in the Italian criminal justice system. It comprises 5 senior judges and its decisions are not subject to jury decision. Those 5 learned judges must have been mindful of something more than the prosecutor's gut instinct.

    It's been a pig's ear of a case from start to finish. That doesn't necessarily mean that the final outcome (we haven't reached that point yet, btw) will inevitably give the wrong verdict. I certainly think you can discount the idea that this has something to do with anti-Americanism - the US really isn't as unpopular in Europe as all of you here seem to believe you are - and do you really believe the highest criminal court in the land would perjure itself in order to deal a blow against the Yankees?

    He was. He was acquitted and released at exactly the same time as Knox. He was only rearrested the day before yesterday as he was, apparently, making his way to the Austrian border.
    I feel sorry for him. I don't think he or Amanda had anything to do with the murder. I think it was that shady guy that Meredith took home from the bar. Now he is going to spend most of his life behind bars for a crime he didn't commit.

    Of course this is just my opinion about his and Amanda's innocence, but I really don't believe they played a part in the murder of Meredith. It doesn't even make sense, the MO especially. Her and Amanda were roommates and seemingly got along fine. Suddenly Meredith meets this man, and they all go back to the apartment, and then the three decide to kill Meredith? It just doesn't add up at all in any way to me.

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