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Thread: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    It was a professional bench of judges that convicted her, not a jury.
    I was referring to the previous comment, though yes that would appear to be a pretty significant counter example.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    I was referring to the previous comment,
    I know. I just thought I'd point it out.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And the extent of that harm is appropriately determined best by the victim.
    WRONG. The extent of the "harm" determined by how the laws are written and the evidence available.


    OTOH, if victims are forced to testify against their will against those who hurt them, then fewer (not more) rape victims will report crimes.
    The District Attorney Office makes a determination due to the willingness of the victim whether a case will go forward but yes they can be compelled to testify.
    The DA in this case actually doesn't care about justice. He's just a clueless, pathetic self-serving moron who wants international attention, even if it's at the expense of others (i. e. Samantha).
    I will say that the District has an obligation to bring him forward for trial or sentencing if possible. If you want to blame anyone for being an idiot than you should blame the judge for insisting that Polanski should had served time as opposed to the plea agreement. The subject of trial of Roman Polanski is Off Topic and I will not spend more time on his issue.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Canada's system is probably more pragmatic and fair than the American system, but Americans seem to think that our constitution was written by the hand of Jesus himself so you'll never get them to admit that.
    The Constitution is the highest law in the land and is the base where all other laws are derived. This is the reason that it is given that level of consideration.

    I never understood the cult-like reverence we have for our founding fathers and the constitution.
    The Constitution was derived from negotiations that occurred just before its founding and are the limits and justifications for the existence of the Powers of government. A Constitution that is not adhered to is a Dead Constitution not a Living one.
    It's just a legal document, for goodness sake. We are capable of making mistakes just like any other country.
    Then it should be amended as it was intended instead of being ignored.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It's just a legal document. I agree with about 70-80 percent of it, the rest is crap.
    I think there is room for improvement for the Constitution myself but it is more than just a legal document.

    For instance, you ever hear of the 3/5 rule? That's where blacks were considered only 3/5ths human. That's right there in the American Constitution.
    That is the nature of compromise the Southern States were not going to agree to ban slavery and there would not have been a United States of America otherwise. The same document also banned the importation of slaves starting 1808.

    Sure, it was amended, but that's the point.
    That is not the point. The point was that it was amended.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    She should be glad she was not arrested in the USA. For murder charges in most states the courts declare the US Constitution is suspended and they deny the right to post bail, for which effectively the person summarily found guilty without and trial or hearing and sentenced to a life sentence until in months or years the court holds a trial where at the government has to prove it was right to summarily put the person in prison and keep the person there or if being in prison for life is too long and the summarily imprisonment sentence is reduced from a life sentence. Being held in jail without bond is a life sentence until and unless it is later reduced. In the meantime, the person staying prison having been found guilty of exactly nothing.

    She was allowed bail. She was not imprisoned prior to trial awaiting a trial to determine if she should be in prison, and the Italian government and legal system has shown far more interest in the justice in her case then is typical in the USA.

    If she was arrested for the same offense in the USA, she would have been in prison this entire time and still would be.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Time has been served according to the plea deal.
    That was never officially accepted and ruled on. He skipped out before sentencing.

    It's funny that you defend not extraditing to the US blaming the US judicial system, but if Americans say they don't want to extradite Knox because of the Italian judicial systems practicing double jeopardy, then all of a sudden it's unreasonable and dumb Americans being dumb.

    I don't know if you could ever make a non-bigoted argument on America.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    She should be glad she was not arrested in the USA. For murder charges in most states the courts declare the US Constitution is suspended
    The State Courts do not suspend the Constitution claming otherwise is just silly.

    and they deny the right to post bail,
    The Constitution does not guarantee a right to bail but forbids excessive bail (Amendment VII). One reason that bail can be denied is due to the accused being a flight risk or to be held for a mental evaluation.

    for which effectively the person summarily found guilty without and trial or hearing and sentenced to a life sentence
    They are not declared guilty nor are they sentenced to any term until the trial has come to a conclusion.

    until in months or years the court holds a trial where at the government has to prove it was right to summarily put the person in prison
    It might take a few months; any longer would be grounds for dismissal of the charges since the Constitution does require that a trial must be "speedy" (Amendment VI)

    and keep the person there or if being in prison for life is too long and the summarily imprisonment sentence is reduced from a life sentence.
    Actually, It would be the County Jail they would be locked up in. Prison is for the convicted.

    Being held in jail without bond is a life sentence until and unless it is later reduced.
    Again there is no sentence and bail is denied sometimes for reasons I mentioned. And it is not often used since the jail has to keep its numbers down to a reasonable level.

    In the meantime, the person staying prison having been found guilty of exactly nothing.
    People who stay in JAIL are awaiting trial or have been convinced of a misdemeanor in a trial.

    She was allowed bail. She was not imprisoned prior to trial awaiting a trial
    Then she wasn't a flight risk since her passport was taken and had to stay within the Italy if not the Provence she was to be tried.

    to determine if she should be in prison, and the Italian government and legal system has shown far more interest in the justice in her case then is typical in the USA.
    Some people here question whether she did get a fair and just trial or not.

    If she was arrested for the same offense in the USA, she would have been in prison this entire time and still would be.
    No barring a negative evaluation for mental health she would have gotten a reasonable bail amount. (She had no priors so I doubt bail would be denied.) Either she or her parents would have posted a bond if not the bail itself. And given that the Courts do not want the jails to take up room for the people who are accused she could have been placed at home arrest as an alternative option.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Of course she is going to be limited in foreign travel. Of course her bogus conviction is going to be appealed again.
    After this crap I would never want to travel again, to be honest. Kick back at home...
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That was never officially accepted and ruled on. He skipped out before sentencing.
    Because of the US judicial system.

    It's funny that you defend not extraditing to the US blaming the US judicial system, but if Americans say they don't want to extradite Knox because of the Italian judicial systems practicing double jeopardy, then all of a sudden it's unreasonable and dumb Americans being dumb.
    Then dont make extradition treaties with countries. My objection to extradition to the US is based on the pathetic US justice system and the very lopsided extradition treaties European countries have with the US. Now if my country or a country has an extradition treaty with the US, then I expect them to follow the law. I might not like the law, and might campaign against it and wanting it changed, but that does not mean the current law should not be followed.

    The same goes for the US having to extradite to Europe. Chances are it wont happen simply because of the whole political process truimphing the legal process in the US on such cases, but like it or not, the US does have an extradition treaty with Italy and according to the law they should extradite her. Now that they most likely wont, just as they refused to extradite the CIA agents who committed crimes on Italian soil.. just shows yet again how arrogant and pathetic the US is towards its allies and international law in general.

    I don't know if you could ever make a non-bigoted argument on America.
    PeteEU

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