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Thread: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

  1. #191
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You sure seem to be talking about a treat you apparently haven't read. I didn't know so I looked it up.

    From the text of the treaty between the US and Italy: "Article 6, provides that extradition shall be denied when the person sought has been in jeopardy in the requested State for the same offense."
    I've already pointed out that this isn't a double jeopardy case. Guess you weren't paying attention.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    In what universe? You attack me, falsely, claiming I "consistently opine" that American justice sucks, with zero evidence to back up your personal attack on me and when I call you on it you claim I'm personally attacking you - bait much??

    Secondly, I didn't claim that soldiers were in custody - I asked the question "aren't there soldiers in custody?" - there's a difference you might not understand. In my second response to you I did correct it to CIA agents rather than soldiers - I find it remarkable that you wouldn't have even heard about the incident.
    I understand the difference quite well, thanks. I also understand context, as in your original post. You are now backpedaling.

    As for Polanski, the outcome was as I stated - he pled guilty to a lesser charge - not "charges", as you falsely claim - he did not, as you falsely claim, plead guilty to "drugging and raping a 13-yr-old girl" - he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse - a far different an far lesser charge - and after pre-sentencing evaluation, in which all parties recommended probation, his lawyers were informed, by the judge, that his sentence would include jail time and deportation so he fled.
    And...? Yes, he fled before sentence was pronounced, and was not extradited back to the US by France, which is the entire basis for using the Polanski case as a rebuttal when some here toss out the old "America has to honor extradition treaties with European countries because if they don't, European countries won't honor extradition treaties with America". The fact is that some European countries have NOT honored extradition treaties with America, and the world has not come to an end. Duh.

    So we can play semantic games and we can play "gotcha" if you want - the basic facts and outcomes are the same. Had your purpose been a discussion of the issues rather than a blatant attack on me personally, that would have been evident.
    You appear to be the one who is playing semantic games, and I am not the one who accused you of "having a burr up your butt". At any rate, my side of this conversation is over.

  3. #193
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I've already pointed out that this isn't a double jeopardy case. Guess you weren't paying attention.
    And since there is disagreement on that point, the treaty you didn't read is highly relevant.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    How many people are currently detained, protesting innocence...and how many of you want them out walking the streets...

    Italian legal system is different from US and I'm sure different from other systems, but if you are in Italy you are judged by Italian judicial criteria. If you don't want that, don't go there.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    In those countries where Double Jeopardy is not an absolute principle, it is nevertheless extremely difficult for the state to make a case unless new evidence comes to light.
    Not even if new evidence is unearthed?
    I think there are a couple of problerms with retrying the case - even with new evidence. First is the whole power of the state issue. A successful criminal defense costs hundreds of thousands or in some cases millions of dollars. Very few people can afford that. Even fewer can afford that twice. It's inherently unfair to the defendant.

    Secondly new evidence isn't really new. By the time a case goes to trial several years have gone by and it may be years more until the new evidence is unearthed. That much time has to make the new evidence suspect.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I think there are a couple of problerms with retrying the case - even with new evidence. First is the whole power of the state issue. A successful criminal defense costs hundreds of thousands or in some cases millions of dollars. Very few people can afford that. Even fewer can afford that twice. It's inherently unfair to the defendant.

    Secondly new evidence isn't really new. By the time a case goes to trial several years have gone by and it may be years more until the new evidence is unearthed. That much time has to make the new evidence suspect.
    Those are both reasonable objections, although I'd point out that criminal defence costs are not as high as you quote everywhere.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I see. All right, what exactly is that "new" evidence that the Italian authorities have suddenly discovered? Please, share your knowledge and information with us.
    I'm speaking in generalities. Have no idea about the specifics of this case, so no comment.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    No, they refused to extradite him because A) they are France, B) it gave them a chance to stick their finger in the eye of America, C) he's famous, and D) rape of a 13 year old girl is no big deal in that cesspool of a country.
    He is a French citizen.. they do not extradite their own citizens.
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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Can't argue with your comments - I don't think anyone knows the "truth" as to what happened with Amanda Knox and her roommates that night - the case was handled poorly. My comments were simply related to the international laws and processes for detaining and extraditing people convicted or charged in other countries.

    With Polanski, if I'm not mistaken, he had/has dual citizenship in the US and France, so the French were protecting him - protecting their citizen - similar to how the US will no doubt protect Knox - but Polanski was detained in Switzerland, I think, where he had a home and where he travelled frequently - I'm not sure why they detained him last year after letting him travel freely for decades, but I guess the US reissued the request.

    Personally, I think the American justice system is very fair to those accused but a little to harsh when it comes to punishment. The Italian system seems a little odd but I don't know the details. As for "double jeopardy", I'm pretty sure in Canada if there are errors in a trial, the prosecution can retry the case even if an accused was acquitted, so that part isn't uncommon.
    Canada's system is probably more pragmatic and fair than the American system, but Americans seem to think that our constitution was written by the hand of Jesus himself so you'll never get them to admit that.

    I never understood the cult-like reverence we have for our founding fathers and the constitution. It's just a legal document, for goodness sake. We are capable of making mistakes just like any other country.

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    Re: Amanda Knox found guilty of murder again by Italian Court

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    But they got a conviction the first time around... and all that is in the appeal process now, with the first appeal freeing her on technicalities but the second appeal agreeing with the original conviction.
    Send us Polanski, and then we can talk.

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