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Thread: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Quick question for anyone willing to answer (and do a little research):

    Do male or female nurses get paid more?
    Male nurses get paid more. According to research in 2008, Women were paid 86.6% what men made (SOURCE). In 2013, when looking at an equivilent full time, full year worker comparison women made 91% of what a man made (SOURCE).

    However, as I previously suggested....as is often the problem people look at a single point of data and (thanks Kush, you introduced the word into play) due to confirmation bias just assume it MUST be because of their view on it.

    There's a definite gap between pay of male and female nurses; however, that fact alone is of litlte use without an understanding of WHY there's a gap, and how much does each variable factor into the ultimate number. For example, one link points out that despite male nurses being a small percentage of the TOTAL population (6% in 2010, 10% in 2013), they have a larger representation within nursing specialities that generally command a higher price point. For example, in 2010 49% of the anestic nurses in the country were male, and that position tends to make a larger amount than a normal nurse working the floor of a hospital...but both would be counted as a "nurse". Additionally, education impacts pay, and as of 2010 it appeared more men were entering into higher education levels for nursing then women. WHAT kind of nurse, and education level, are just two possible factors in play here that would need to be examined.

    Is a systematic bias towards men by those in power a possable factor? Absolutely, but the question is generally "how much". The question is also comes down into what is the cause of some of the other factors and is it something that needs, or can, be "fixed" via government action.

    I've not seen anyone really disagreeing that there is a wage gap, but simply suggesting that there's hardly one universally absolute method in which to read it and that each method of how to determine it can have its flaws and issues depending on WHAT you're actually looking ot measure. And that while it may exist, the extent that it exists in a way that needs active government intervention to be able to fix is in dispute.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I don't know, you were just slobbering over one branch of power using it's power in an attempt to strong arm in the name of what they think is right....funny you seem to have issues with it when it doesn't fit your political ideology. Shocker.
    from that post, it appears you believe shutting down government was the right thing to do
    most of us would disagree, but that does not mean the congress, with the power of the purse, should be denied the ability to make such poor decisions
    so, you misunderstand - what a shock - that my objection is to the wrong-headed decision making and not to the Constitutional authority they wield
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    from that post, it appears you believe shutting down government was the right thing to do
    most of us would disagree, but that does not mean the congress, with the power of the purse, should be denied the ability to make such poor decisions
    so, you misunderstand - what a shock - that my objection is to the wrong-headed decision making and not to the Constitutional authority they wield
    The Republican response to me was a clear signal that Republicans just have no solutions to offer in today's real world. They just as much as said that they wished America luck in the future without their participation in government.

    I believe that Obama's message was that, given the GOP stand, he has to do what has to be done. If they opt out he's last man standing.

    An awful situation for everyone.

    I personally hope for a speedy recovery for the GOP but that will require leadership. It's not evident to me that there is any of that on the horizon for them. I'd love to be wrong.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    Why not?
    because he would suffer, even more, by comparison

    please don't let the president, who sanctioned torture, suffer sarcasm.gif
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    from that post, it appears you believe shutting down government was the right thing to do
    Nope, to check my posts on the topic. I felt it was a bad move politically and policy wise, though I understood and could respect part of why it was done

    Just because a particular part of the government technically has a particular power doesn't necessarily mean I think they should make use of it. Taking extreme action, be it threatening congress to do what you want or using EOs specifically to enact things that can't get passed into law or refusing to fund the government, is an generally negative thing that highlights failure on all sides and shouldn't be applauded.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the power of the Executive office. the third branch of government
    another branch, the judiciary, will not allow him to exceed the scope of the authority of the Executive
    the third branch, congress, will see to that

    Obama put congress on notice that he was no longer waiting on it to work with him on those things he could do alone, via the legal authority of his Executive office
    he waited five years too long, but it's a start
    That's not how it works, but thanks for showing us the latest spin. Where did you get that from? Dailykos?

    If you took any college courses on American Government, get your money back
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    That's not how it works, but thanks for showing us the latest spin. Where did you get that from? Dailykos?

    If you took any college courses on American Government, get your money back
    We can't shut the country down just because the GOP is in a snit.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    We can't shut the country down just because the GOP is in a snit.
    So your opinion is that the GOP House shutdown the govt. and Obama along with the Senate had nothing to do with it? Have you ever taken a civics class?

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    I agree that the 77 cents on the dollar icon is closer to good advertising than it is to rigorous statistics.

    However it is advertising a legitimate problem that requires, unfortunately, government intervention to fix, at least in our lifetimes. Business could choose to fix it without intervention, but their one principle, make more money, regardless of the cost to others, prevents it.
    Doesn't make sense. I agree that businesses operate on the guiding principle of making money. Related to that, they pay employees the least amount they can get away with and still retain that employee.( that btw , is the guiding principle behinde he yankess paying Tanka 215 million- that is the LEAST amount thay thought they could offer and be assured of signing him). But if this is THE guiding princple why would they pay men more than women, unless you are contradicting yourself and claiming sexism is actually the overriding principle.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    I've not seen anyone really disagreeing that there is a wage gap, but simply suggesting that there's hardly one universally absolute method in which to read it and that each method of how to determine it can have its flaws and issues depending on WHAT you're actually looking ot measure. And that while it may exist, the extent that it exists in a way that needs active government intervention to be able to fix is in dispute.
    It is generally accepted among economists and sociologists that a glass ceiling/escalator poses a problem for females in the jobs market. Just how much, and establishing causality, will be a venue for future research and data analysis. That being said, this is not simply a U.S. phenomenon, but again the U.S. does rank 23rd out of a 68 country panel.

    For more information, see the 2013 Gender Gap report via the World Economic Forum.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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