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Thread: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    This would be meaningful if accompanied by a tally of won vs lost vs this administration compared to others.

    Without it there is no meaning.
    Depends largely on what I'm claiming.

    If I'm caliming this Administration is worse about it than others then you'd have a point.

    If I'm simply claiming that stating they "They will do what they can within the law" is incorrect, and that in reality it'ss "They will do what they can within what they believe the law to be" then it doesn't, as what other administrations have done is irrelevant.

    I underestand the basic fall back from those who are blindly hyper partisan is to immedietely blame the other guy and go "They did it too!" or to assume people are being hypocriical. That's not hte case here. I'm in no way asserting in this thread that Obama is doing more "wrong" or "unconstitutional" or anything else than any other President...I'm simply asserting that it's incorrect to suggest he will only do things that are within the power of the law. History, documented and unquestionable, shows that's not to be the case. Any additional assumptions you make in terms of my intent, meaning, or purose in stating it are of no concern or validity to me, because your assumptions don't dictate what I think or mean. If you can't combat or counter or offer up an argument regarding the things I've actually SAID so that you have to rely on assumptions and strawmen then that speaks of your lack of an argument rather than a problem in mine.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Depends largely on what I'm claiming.

    If I'm caliming this Administration is worse about it than others then you'd have a point.

    If I'm simply claiming that stating they "They will do what they can within the law" is incorrect, and that in reality it'ss "They will do what they can within what they believe the law to be" then it doesn't, as what other administrations have done is irrelevant.

    I underestand the basic fall back from those who are blindly hyper partisan is to immedietely blame the other guy and go "They did it too!" or to assume people are being hypocriical. That's not hte case here. I'm in no way asserting in this thread that Obama is doing more "wrong" or "unconstitutional" or anything else than any other President...I'm simply asserting that it's incorrect to suggest he will only do things that are within the power of the law. History, documented and unquestionable, shows that's not to be the case. Any additional assumptions you make in terms of my intent, meaning, or purose in stating it are of no concern or validity to me, because your assumptions don't dictate what I think or mean. If you can't combat or counter or offer up an argument regarding the things I've actually SAID so that you have to rely on assumptions and strawmen then that speaks of your lack of an argument rather than a problem in mine.
    You are stating whatever you are stating in a hyper-partisan way. If what you meant was that yours was a semantics issue, there were many clearer ways to say it.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    Bush never faced a Congress on strike.
    Then he shouldnt be used as an example.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Then he shouldnt be used as an example.
    Why not?

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    So PMZ's suggestion actually got me somewhat curious...what WOULD those smattering of cases that the article I linked to suggest related to past instances? So far I've gone through 2000 to 2004 Supreme Court cases looking for instances where the case is suggesting wrong doing on the part of an Executive Branch entity OR based on executive branch actions (as opposed to challenges against a law congress passed, or challenges to more localized cases that are simply appealing the lower courts of the US). So far this is what I've came up with in terms of results from 2000 to 2004:

    FDA v. Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp - 5/4 against administration

    United States v. Hubbell - 8/1 against the administration

    Kyllo v. United States - 5/4 against the administration

    United States v. Mead Corp - 8/1 for the administration

    Chickshaw Nation v. United States - 7/2 for the administration

    Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition - 6/3 against the administration

    Eldred v. Ashcroft - 7/2 for the administration

    United States v. White Mountain Apache Tribe - 5/4 against the administration

    Sell v. United States - 6/3 against the administration

    United States v. Flores-Montano - 9/0 for the administration

    Department of Transportation v. Public Citizen - 9/0 for the administration

    Rumsefeld v. Badilla - 5/4 for the administration

    Rasul v. Bush - 6/3 against the administration

    Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 4/2/3 (this was a weird one) against the administration

    Leocal v. Ashcroft - 9/0 against the administration

    -------

    Leocal v. Ashcroft is the only one where I see a unanimous decision against the administration, where they were trying to assert that a DUI constituted a "crime of violence" and thus opened someone up to deportation.

    I'll try to continue my search from 2004 to 2008 tomorrow.

    I'll also go from 2009 to today and see exactly what instances there are for this current administration as well.

    Admittedly, for those that are WANTING to compare (PMZ seemed to want to; my point needed no comparison) it's still lacking a broader scope by looking at Clinton and others before him. I may get to that, but since it wasn't really part of my point and came about more as a random curiosity I don't know if I'll end up doing that.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So PMZ's suggestion actually got me somewhat curious...what WOULD those smattering of cases that the article I linked to suggest related to past instances? So far I've gone through 2000 to 2004 Supreme Court cases looking for instances where the case is suggesting wrong doing on the part of an Executive Branch entity OR based on executive branch actions (as opposed to challenges against a law congress passed, or challenges to more localized cases that are simply appealing the lower courts of the US). So far this is what I've came up with in terms of results from 2000 to 2004:

    FDA v. Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp - 5/4 against administration

    United States v. Hubbell - 8/1 against the administration

    Kyllo v. United States - 5/4 against the administration

    United States v. Mead Corp - 8/1 for the administration

    Chickshaw Nation v. United States - 7/2 for the administration

    Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition - 6/3 against the administration

    Eldred v. Ashcroft - 7/2 for the administration

    United States v. White Mountain Apache Tribe - 5/4 against the administration

    Sell v. United States - 6/3 against the administration

    United States v. Flores-Montano - 9/0 for the administration

    Department of Transportation v. Public Citizen - 9/0 for the administration

    Rumsefeld v. Badilla - 5/4 for the administration

    Rasul v. Bush - 6/3 against the administration

    Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 4/2/3 (this was a weird one) against the administration

    Leocal v. Ashcroft - 9/0 against the administration

    -------

    Leocal v. Ashcroft is the only one where I see a unanimous decision against the administration, where they were trying to assert that a DUI constituted a "crime of violence" and thus opened someone up to deportation.

    I'll try to continue my search from 2004 to 2008 tomorrow.

    I'll also go from 2009 to today and see exactly what instances there are for this current administration as well.

    Admittedly, for those that are WANTING to compare (PMZ seemed to want to; my point needed no comparison) it's still lacking a broader scope by looking at Clinton and others before him. I may get to that, but since it wasn't really part of my point and came about more as a random curiosity I don't know if I'll end up doing that.
    Good data always enlightens.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    Why not?
    Because its NOT one.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by KLATTU View Post
    The biggest mistake in a debate:

    Being sarcastic when you are WRONG.

    The Gender Wage Gap Lie [AKA . Feminist writer in super triple liberal Slate sets babbling idiot from Chicago straight]

    9
    You know that “women make 77 cents to every man’s dollar” line you’ve heard a hundred times? It’s not true.

    The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.

    Gender pay gap: The familiar line that “women make 77 cents to every man’s dollar” simply isn’t accurate.
    ROFL. The biggest mistake in a debate is not knowing what you are talking about, or being ignorant with respect to the data.



    In the future it would be preferable to source actual data, instead of an article that oozes with confirmation bias.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    ROFL. The biggest mistake in a debate is not knowing what you are talking about, or being ignorant with respect to the data.



    In the future it would be preferable to source actual data, instead of an article that oozes with confirmation bias.

    Where....anywhere...in that chart is there a comparison of men and women doing the same job?????????????????????

    The glaring shortcoming in those stats is pointed out in that article by that liberal feminist I linked.
    You must have skimmed over that?

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Wonderful link. And this actually goes back to my point in another thread about Executive Orders. People enjoy taking a COMPLEX situation/argument/stance and attempting to reduce it to a singular thing while ignoring all the other factors that can be having significant impact.
    That link is actually very weak. I can provide provide econometric research (not a weak article) that identifies this concerning trend, if you still are in denial.

    Can you do the same?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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