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Thread: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014



    ok thats pretty funny

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, given numerous instances of the administrations actions being overruled by the court in a unanimous basis, it would be more accurate to say "work with me, or to the extent I believe I am legally able, I will move things forward myself".

    As we've seen in past decisions, and potentially in the upcoming decision regarding his "recess" appointment, what the President BELIEVES is legal and what is legal doesn't always jive. What's troubling is an administration ran by a "constitutional professor" (whose experience as such was one thing touted as a reason to not worry about his dreadfully lacking resume) is having routine instances of being overruled unanimously by the SCOTUS.
    Makes you wonder what he was teaching people.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    We're talking more about the ideology. The purpose of the Presidency is to execute the laws that congress makes and represent the country in foreign affairs. Not to make policy. Hes redefining the balance of power.
    I really wish folks would stop acting as if this is something new for a sitting President. Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and GW Bush all used their executive power to streeeeeeeetch their authority somewhat. Some did it within the letter of the law (those who weren't impeached, their executive over-reach wasn't reeled in by the SCOUS or were Congress didn't rewriting specific laws) or they got handed their ass.

    Jackson: Indians/land rights - SCOUS
    Truman: Industrial seizure - SCOUS
    Nixon: civil liberty violations - impeached
    Regan: Iran/Contra - Congressional Hearings
    Clinton: excessive use of executive privilege - impeached
    GW Bush: civil liberty violations - revised law by Congress

    I'm sure the SCOUS will rule against Pres. Obama's recess appointments, but that aside if Congress truly believed he was over-stepping his bounds I'm pretty sure the Spkr Boehnor would be doing more than just making idle rhetorical arguments. So, until Congress acts or the SCOUS rules against the alleged unconstitutional actions conducted by President Obama, can we stop acting like the President of the United States cannot use the power of his office to execute policy within his legal authority?
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, given numerous instances of the administrations actions being overruled by the court in a unanimous basis, it would be more accurate to say "work with me, or to the extent I believe I am legally able, I will move things forward myself".

    As we've seen in past decisions, and potentially in the upcoming decision regarding his "recess" appointment, what the President BELIEVES is legal and what is legal doesn't always jive. What's troubling is an administration ran by a "constitutional professor" (whose experience as such was one thing touted as a reason to not worry about his dreadfully lacking resume) is having routine instances of being overruled unanimously by the SCOTUS.
    What rulings would those be? Perhaps I've missed it, but I know of no such rulings by the Supreme Court that goes counter to anything President Obama has done to date. Care to elaborate?
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I really wish folks would stop acting as if this is something new for a sitting President. Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and GW Bush all used their executive power to streeeeeeeetch their authority somewhat. Some did it within the letter of the law (those who weren't impeached, their executive over-reach wasn't reeled in by the SCOUS or were Congress didn't rewriting specific laws) or they got handed their ass.

    Jackson: Indians/land rights - SCOUS
    Truman: Industrial seizure - SCOUS
    Nixon: civil liberty violations - impeached
    Regan: Iran/Contra - Congressional Hearings
    Clinton: excessive use of executive privilege - impeached
    GW Bush: civil liberty violations - revised law by Congress

    I'm sure the SCOUS will rule against Pres. Obama's recess appointments, but that aside if Congress truly believed he was over-stepping his bounds I'm pretty sure the Spkr Boehnor would be doing more than just making idle rhetorical arguments. So, until Congress acts or the SCOUS rules against the alleged unconstitutional actions conducted by President Obama, can we stop acting like the President of the United States cannot use the power of his office to execute policy within his legal authority?
    Again, we're talking about the IDEOLOGICAL idea of saying that since congress wont give the President what he wants, he'll do it anyway. Was that the argument used by your examples? I dont recall Bush ever saying that.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What rulings would those be? Perhaps I've missed it, but I know of no such rulings by the Supreme Court that goes counter to anything President Obama has done to date. Care to elaborate?
    Technically they were lower federal courts. Recess appointments for example. SCOTUS is hearing that case right now. Another one was the moritorium on Gulf drilling. A federal court ruled that illegal. Another one is the mass collection of phone records, though that might qualify as more of a govt action than Obama specifically.
    Last edited by jonny5; 01-29-14 at 04:24 PM.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What rulings would those be? Perhaps I've missed it, but I know of no such rulings by the Supreme Court that goes counter to anything President Obama has done to date. Care to elaborate?
    Here's a USA Today article going over some of them ((Source) as well as one from the WSJ (SOURCE). A sampling summary...

    Horne v. Department of Agriculture was a 5th amendment issue with the Obama Administration seizing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of crop without compensation and claiming the farmers couldn’t even raise the issue with the court without enduring lengthy delays and paying a $483k fine. 9-0 against the administration

    Sackett v. Environmental Protection Agency claimed a couple couldn’t go to court to seek compensation after the EPA blocked construction of their house. Again, 9-0 against the administration

    Arkansas Game & Fish Commission v. United States they argued the government isn’t required to compensate people if the government repeatedly and deliberately floods their property. 9-0 against once again.

    Hosanna-Tabor Church v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission had the administration claiming that a church’s religious protections under the first amendment doesn’t extend to their decisions regarding the hiring and firing of employees, a position even Elena Kagan decried as “amazing”. Again, 9-0.

    United States v. Jones had the administration arguing they could put a GPS onto a suspected drug dealer’s car and electronically monitor his movements without a warrant. Again, 9-0

    In no way am I suggesting in any of those cases dthat the administration was sitting there going "mwhahaha, let's go against the constitutional boundries set forth before us". But it is pointing out that simply because Obama chooses to do something doesn't necessarily mean he's doing it "within the law", only within what he and his administration THINK is the law.

    And as I pointed out in another thread, the argument is hardly singularly on the notion that Executive Orders are unconstiituional (some think that, but it seems a minority) nor simply the amount (ridiculous to look at a complex issue and argument and boil it down to a singular metric), but rather a combination of multiple factors that lead into the complaints regarding Obama's actions and threatened actions.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    .........................
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-29-14 at 04:49 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, given numerous instances of the administrations actions being overruled by the court in a unanimous basis, it would be more accurate to say "work with me, or to the extent I believe I am legally able, I will move things forward myself".

    As we've seen in past decisions, and potentially in the upcoming decision regarding his "recess" appointment, what the President BELIEVES is legal and what is legal doesn't always jive. What's troubling is an administration ran by a "constitutional professor" (whose experience as such was one thing touted as a reason to not worry about his dreadfully lacking resume) is having routine instances of being overruled unanimously by the SCOTUS.
    This would be meaningful if accompanied by a tally of won vs lost vs this administration compared to others.

    Without it there is no meaning.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Again, we're talking about the IDEOLOGICAL idea of saying that since congress wont give the President what he wants, he'll do it anyway. Was that the argument used by your examples? I dont recall Bush ever saying that.
    Bush never faced a Congress on strike.

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